Comments on: Gay marriage divides GOP

By: Frederick H

Frederick H — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:49:25 +0000

Dear Marilyn, which question(s) have I dodged here then? I had the impression that, on the contrary, I went out of my way to address the points you made in my direction. I really opened my heart and mind for you to let you know what I think and feel about YOUR OWN AGENDA. And by now it must be abundantly clear to you that our paths differ fully and radically. Is that “narcissistic”, as you now contend? I really don’t think so. I would consider myself a full-blown coward if I would pretend to agree with your convictions, whereas in reality they go against literally everything I believe in and stand for. I’ve said it before I think: I was born and raised within an “average” Methodist family. Both my parents were honest, genuine Christians, my father even wore the clergyman’s collar. And I think you must know what it is to grow up gay in an orthodox Christian environment. Not something I’d wish upon anyone having the bad luck to be kicked into life on this wretched planet.

So yes, in the course of my life I shook the shackles of biblically oriented faith, thank goodness. Much to the disappointment of my parents, of course. But to me, honesty (if that’s what you want to call it) counts as infinitely more worthwhile than (lame) tradition.
I am not a Christian, not a Believer in someone up there in the sky who knows it all and has something fantastic in store for us humans, if only we endorse (and fully endorse) the histories and the rules set there in your bible for all eternity. That, this type of faith, amounts to slavery, to primitive, mindless self-deceit, as far as I’m concerned. We live in a fully enlightened era and above all in a free country. Everyone who’s had a proper (higher) education has the obligation to think for themselves and see through the thin surface of religious dogma and endlessly repeated rhetoric. To me every book in this world having to do with “the philosophy and purpose of human existence” should be fully CRITICALLY examined. Be they called the bible, the Koran, the Pali canon or Plato’s Dialogues, for that matter. I’ve been raised with the bible, I’ve read whole shelves of critical commentary and found its (the bible’s ) contents hopelessly wanting. A collection of very interesting stories, but not nearly convincing enough to take as guidelines for your life on this sorry planet. Oftentimes I highly regret the fact that I came into this world and can only make the best of it. Sad isn’t it. But I find no solace whatsoever in religion. To me it’s a world of total deception and false promises. Well, that’s the way it is. It simply can’t be helped.

By: Marilyn

Marilyn — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:37:02 +0000

The skewed history lessons are not impressive since you use them to dodge everyone’s questions–poor soul–do you ever look at YOU. The discussion was originally about homosexual behaviour, narcissistic at best!
I’m still praying for you. God doesn’t give up on you just because you give up on Him.

By: Frederick H

Frederick H — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 11:49:09 +0000

The trouble, Marilyn is that most of the things Paul mentions here are not new either. If you read the words of the Buddha, who lived hundreds of years before Paul even kicked around in his mother’s belly, you’ll find quite similar points mentioned, except for the rambling about sexuality and God, of course. You see, I get the impression that Paul himself was a very, very frustrated man, a gigantic fanatic who, after his hallucinations at the gates of Damascus (legend has it that he was an epileptic), changed his focus of (physical) persecution of the Christians to fierce verbal slamming of the Gentiles. But the moralistic fanaticism was quite the same. I hear that he was a hopeless trouble maker, who (probably) fought like a lion to keep his own position of power and prominence within the group of preachers he used to travel with. No Marilyn, I have not the tiniest gram of respect for men such as Paul, a fervent misogynist if ever there was one, (please don’t forget that) and a cynic who had the nerve to contend that whoever married rightfully did so (just because it would be better to marry than to keep the flame of sexual longing burning all too long). However, he who did not marry (and, of course, succeeded in preserving his chastity!!) did even better. You needn’t be a gifted psychologist, Marilyn, to see that this man was really obsessed with sex, but was, probably, once again, too ugly and unattractive to find a woman who’d want to share their life with this kobold. Ugh; reading about this chap and writing these sentences here now, I really feel irritation and the nausea rising rapidly within my poor body. No Marilyn, very sweet of you to want to pray for me, but I’d recommend doing something nice for your neighbors instead. Baking an apple pie would perhaps be a great idea. Lois, the lovely old lady next door here, surprised me and my man with a most delicious one a couple of weeks ago. Yum, yum. Oh, and did you ever happen to read Philip Larkin (the wonderful poet’s) biography? Well anyway, this is what he had to say about the Bible near the end of his life, “ (You know)… it’s absolutely bloody amazing to think that anyone ever believed any of that. Really, it’s absolute balls. Beautiful, of course. But balls’……. Think about it and have a very nice day.

By: Marilyn

Marilyn — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:43:06 +0000

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone WHO BELIEVES, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IS REVEALED from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.” For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are WITHOUT EXCUSE, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became FUTILE in their thought and their FOOLISH hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man–and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the CREATOR, who is blessed forever. For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the women, burned in their lusts for one another, men with men committing what is shameful and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them. Romans 1:16-32.

Frederick, you’re outlook is not new. God knew you before you knew yourself but God still LOVES you. He is waiting for you to turn from your wicked ways.
Take a breath and think…Christianity is more logical than your arguments muster.
I don’t think you see past your anger. So be it. The decision is yours, I’ll be praying for you.

By: Frederick H

Frederick H — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:24:49 +0000

My dear Yandle and Marilyn, you’re absolutely right: I’m a polemicist pur sang as the French so beautifully say. And, Dear Heavens, you mention August 2009: seven months almost already. Time does fly, doesn’t it? But, anyhow, I’m still enjoying this whole Spiel immensely, if I may say so. It’s all vanity, my dears, all pathetic vanity (on both sides). Ah, didn’t lovely King Solomon remind us of this “vile” tendency within all of us? So, I’m certainly familiar with good old King Sol’s very, very wise remarks. Ain’t that fantastic??
Well, on a more serious note: didn’t you read my March 13 (3:37 pm) comment here, a few paragraphs above? If you did, you would have noticed that I consider the very idea of a “Homosexual Society”, as you so colorfully call it, totally and really absolutely absurd and obnoxious. Just as a “Fully and Exclusively Heterosexual Society” (Lord forbid), it would, of course, be a completely sterile and stupid idea. A four year old will readily see that. I really don’t know where you got the impression that even a tiny minority of gays would be interested in such a ludicrous and nonsensical concept. No my dears, nature (or your very own Lord, if He exists) celebrates VARIETY, BIO AND PSYCHO-DIVERSITY. Not the totally static Hetero-only philosophy you seem to want to propagate. You see that’s one of the things in (Orthodox) Religion that abhors me no end: the sterile uniformity strived for. ONLY the classic family unit (pa, ma and their two or three children) should have our total blessing and support. Why? Only because some nut heads who happened to have produced your bible came up with a bunch of anti-gay stories? Come on now. What YOU want would be entirely “Against Nature”. That’s why I included these reports about homosexuality in animals. Everywhere within the Natural World we observe this VARIETY: hetero, homo and bi-sexuality. To me man is nothing more than a (merely partially) evolved natural phenomenon. All this crazy nonsense about the so-called image of God is purely a way of denying your (natural) heritage. We and the apes have a common ancestor. Period. Like it or not.

Oh yes, to get back to your insane idea about a homosexual society. You know, Mr Hitler, the greatest mass murderer in human history had a similar vision almost 80 years ago: an exclusively Aryan Society: no Jews, no Gypsies, no Blacks, no Gays, nothing but blond and blue-eyed “straights”, ready to do the Master’s every bidding. So, my dears what you’ve been suggesting here is nothing new, but it’s just as moronic and preposterous as a world exclusively in habited by Christians, Muslims or folk of whatever other creed.
And if you say homosexuality should be banned merely because of its inherent (biological) sterility why don’t you send off a similar message to all those straight couples who consider the “obligation” to raise a family (with children) absolutely abhorrent? Who choose to remain on their own as a couple and would rather die than take responsibility for the conception of any offspring of their own?
So then….
Oh and finally I’ll repeat it for you here: it’s not your God that I mock and hate, simply because I really wouldn’t know who that is. No, once again, it’s your RIDICULOUS AND ABSURD RELIGIOUS RHETORIC that I feel totally contemptuous towards. It’s an offense to human reason and intelligence, worthy of being thrown on the trash heap of the history of human folly (including Nazism and Soviet Communism).

By: Jeff in OH

Jeff in OH — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 10:51:27 +0000

I read the heading claiming “Gay marriage divides GOP” The only problem is It’s dividing only one GOP, and that’s Chainey. I Don’t see any other name mentioned anywhere. Is Chainey now all off the GOP? He’s right on a lot of things EXCEPT This.. He should keep his mouth shut……

By: Marilyn

Marilyn — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 02:29:56 +0000

Thank you.

By: Yandle

Yandle — Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:07:39 +0000

Marilyn,
You do as you think best but I have already found that it is a waste of my God given time to share comments with Frederick H. He has been at this post since August 9,2009 using mockery against God and God’s Word. Frederick likes to do as did the devil when he said to Eve “Yea, hath God said” or when the devil saith to Christ “for it is written” then you can give Frederick a scriptural answer, as you could here, and he will use the answer for more scoffing, but as God says “So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void”. Frederick has used this posts for months to mock God with comments void of any substance. Marilyn, you have made good comments here and the one-generation fact still has not been answered.
May God bless your soul and body

By: Marilyn

Marilyn — Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:59:18 +0000

It is interesting that you selected a passage of scripture that refers to King Solomon and his contemplations over the “vanity” of life. He is stressing over the fact that all living things meet the same end…DEATH. And that you can’t take it with you. You see, Solomon was a very wealthy man and basically had everything and everything was at his disposal. But he recognized that although he “had it all” he knew that there was more to life and that there was and is someone bigger than him. He acknowledged God. Ecclesiastes 12:13,14.
Frederick, this forum is not about animals and the hierarchy of life but about people and their choices in this life and the impact now and when your gone.
Well, its my turn to quote some scripture from my Bible, by the way, and inerrant Bible.
Ephesians 2:8,9 For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the GIFT of God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 1:12 But as many received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name.
John 8:24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins;for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.
Quite the contrary to your idea that Christians or God is trying to “bash” the homosexual. You see the Bible really is a wake up call to all sinners and a blueprint for reconciliation and salvation from utter destruction.
Just like you said that you can’t force anyone to like classical or jazz music…christians can’t force anyone to make a personal decision for Christ. It is up to you and God. Just like you would step into stop an assault on a gay person at this point of your life, christians will step into stop sin’s assault on another person.
Now let’s talk about the anti-recruitment sentiment.

By: Frederick H

Frederick H — Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:21:26 +0000

Now, Marilyn, Yandle, I’ve got a very interesting passage for you to be found in your very own bible. I’ve posted it a couple of months before here on the Forum, but I’ll just copy a few lines for you here. Will be enough food for thought I suppose. It’s from the book of Ecclesiastes 3:18-21 (New International Version). Here goes:
18 I also thought, “As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Man’s fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath [a] ; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal [b] goes down into the earth?”

So, Marilyn, Yandle, my dears, isn’t that abundantly clear: THAT THEY MAY SEE THAT THEY ARE LIKE (THE) ANIMALS….. ALL HAVE THE SAME BREATH…..

You see Marilyn we’re so keen to put ourselves way above the animals. We’re the so-called crown on Creation. At least that’s what a lot of you Christians insist on all the time. But Ecclesiastes brings you way down back to the earth. As did Charles Darwin more than a century ago. We’re just as good as the chimps and the orangutans out there in the fields (and the Zoos, poor critters). And to tell you the truth in some respects those lovely apes outdo us, I do think. They don’t pollute their habitats. They’re not the greedy grabbers, the merciless killers, the gay bashers we’ve become all the way up to the present moment (so many of us, at least).

So, created in the God’s image? Ha, ha, if there is a God, that statement should count as a full offense to this Entity, don’t you think?
By the way, Marilyn, did you know that we share 99 % (yes, ninety-nine percent) of our genetic material with the chimps? Yes Marilyn, this is not some lame speculation, no, it’s cold, rock-hard scientific fact. Think about it. The chimps are our direct cousins and you should be proud of it. They’re lovely, peace-loving critters. We can very well learn a thing or two from them.