Clean Energy is Pure Fantasy
November 18, 2009 by John Myers
(Part one of a three-part series on energy)
Barack Obama must be thrilled with fellow Nobel Prize winner and former Vice President Al Gore and his just-published book, Our Choice, A Plan to Solve the Climate Crisis. In it, Gore sings the liberal refrain that big government can save the world.
Gore, who is making the rounds touting his book this month, argues there are economic as well as political reasons to be green.
"There is a common thread running through the discussion of climate, (national) security, and the economic crisis, and that is our ridiculous dependence on foreign oil and coal," Gore said.
In other words, clean energy will bring us peace, prosperity and respite from that “End of Days” scenario known as global warming.
Gore thinks we can have peace because America will no longer be dependent on Middle East oil. As a result we can pull out of the region lock, stock and no barrel.
That will save hundreds of billions of dollars being spent on Arab oil. Best yet, that money can be invested into clean technologies—a super-grid to capture and transport wind and solar power.
Gore’s vision is for America to become a world leader in clean technology and export it around the world, correcting one last annoyance—our staggering trade deficit.
Gore’s utopia is green. Soon we can sleep easy in our lavish solar homes with our electric cars plugged in.
If it sounds too good to be true there is a reason for that—it is.
Jousting at Windmills
If you have ever been to Palm Springs, Calif., and driven west you can’t help but notice the forest of wind turbines that pockmark the desert landscape.
As we drove along Interstate-10 years ago my wife Angela said, “How come the windmills aren’t turning?”
“No wind,” I said.
That sums up the problem with wind power, a system that currently produces about 1 percent of America’s energy needs.
When the wind blows you get electricity but when it doesn’t blow you get nothing. That is because it is impossible with current technology to store alternating current. Direct current wind power can’t be stored in batteries. As a result consumers need redundant power plants.
Then there is a question of cost and space.
Last year in England, former Industry Secretary and current Labour MP John Hutton announced the British government should build a huge array of giant windmills to meet the country’s future energy needs.
The Energy Tribune said Hutton’s plan would literally change the face of Britain. That’s because Hutton wants the government to build 7,000 turbines—or one every half-mile around the entire coast of Britain.
It’s interesting that as much as the greens hate to spoil the environment they embrace wind power. Turbines not only kill tens of thousands of birds but also use up more space per unit of capacity than any other power source. According to the U.S. Department of Energy each wind turbine requires 40 acres.
Physicist Howard Hayden at the University of Connecticut sums up the situation: “Imagine a one-mile swath of wind turbines extending from San Francisco to Los Angeles. That land area would be required to produce as much power around the clock as one large coal, natural gas, or nuclear power station that normally occupies about one square kilometer.”
And wind turbines don‘t come cheap. One commercial 2 megawatt turbine costs about $3 million installed.
According to Senator Lamar Alexander (R-TN), “At a time when America needs large amounts of low-cost reliable power, wind produces puny amounts of high-cost unreliable power. We need lower prices; wind power raises prices.”
The Sun of All Things
My experience with solar power dates back to that time we drove past the motionless windmills. It was the early 1980s and we were buying our first house. The 1970s energy crisis was still lingering and since real estate was cheap in Spokane, Wash., we decided to spend some extra money and buy a brand new solar home.
It was a nice enough berm house if you didn’t mind dirt piled up against the sides and the back of it. As for the solar panels, they collected energy to beat the band in the summer, which was too bad since we didn’t have an air conditioner. As for its use in the winter, we were in the rainy Pacific Northwest so our solar panels were practically useless.
Nearly 30 years later solar power meets about 1 percent of America’s electricity needs. And solar is still an incredibly costly proposition. It costs up to $80,000 to put in solar technology that would meet the electrical demands of a modest home.
Green Econometrics did the math. In a 2007 article they calculated that solar energy is 10 to 20 times more expensive than fossil fuels for power generation (see graph below). You can read the story at: http://greenecon.net/understanding-the-cost-of-solar-energy/energy_economics.html.
Beam Me Up Scotty
To better understand how ridiculous the prospect of solar energy is, consider a press release sent out by Pacific Gas & Electric Corporation (PG&E) (NYSE: PCG) this past spring.
PG&E announced that it had requested approval from the California Public Utilities Commission to enter into a power purchase agreement with Solaren Corp. in Southern California.
Under the plan Solaren would deploy a solar array into space—yes space—to beam an average of 850 gigawatt hours (GWh) for the first year of the term, and 1,700 GWh per year over the remaining term to PG&E customers.
According to Solaren it has even had talks with Lockheed-Martin and Boeing to build the solar plant and the rockets needed to send it into orbit.
All of which prompted Energy & Capital to write: “The press has gushed about the ‘next frontier’ of solar power, which would collect power ‘24 hours a day’ from the far brighter solar radiation available above earth’s atmosphere from a low-orbit. The energy would be transmitted to a receiver based in Fresno, Calif.”
Meanwhile, it was revealed that the Pentagon had done its own study on space-based solar power. Their report said that a $10 billion program could create a measly 10-megawatt pilot satellite.
The scale of the PG&E project is out of this world. Their satellite would have to be hundreds of times bigger than the International Space Station, which can barely sustain itself with solar energy.
Just one final detail: nobody—not even a Nobel Prize winner—has yet figured out a technology that will actually transfer the sun’s rays.
The fundamental truth is that we will, for decades longer, continue to rely on fossil fuels.
Next week, in Part Two of this three-part series, I will touch on more earthly problems, including America’s all too real oil crisis and one rock solid industry that will help ease America’s energy pains and earn you gusher-type profits.
Yours for real wealth and good health,
John Myers
Myers’ Energy and Gold Report
Thank you for such a simple concise explanation of this problem. I have ALWAYS questioned for an answer to the “no wind” solution. You explained it very well.
Call your Senator today on whether you want the Senate to vote on whether or not to have a discussion on this Health Care Bill. They are voting on this tomorrow, Sat.the 21st. If they vote yes, it is almost a positive that it will go through.
John, it is my firm opinion that you are wrong and that along with what we have
now future technologies will improve and expand current ideas for GREEN
ENERGY! With all of your background and experience I suggest that you THINK
AND RETHINK the situation for your own personal future benefits.
THANKS FOR YOUR TIME!
Earl you say that he is wrong but do not counter with the supporting information you used to base you opinion.
Will you please expand on how John is wrong and the information that helped your form your view?
John forgot one important factor. The wind generators are a blight on our environment. So much so that one of the green promoters, Ted Kennedy, was throwing a fit because a proposed wind farm would blight the view from his estate. Had wind generation farms been a conservative idea, the Liberals would have had a hissy fit.
It is not about the environment. They want complete control of our lives and our wallets. And they will use any sweet sounding lie to accomplish that.
Dave, drill baby drill, is not the solution for the east coast. You may live inland, where the appreciation for water not blighted by sand oil is not even given a thought, but there are many on the coast who do not want their beautiful beaches ruined and their tourist industry slaughtered. Those big corporations that you so love, and which we are totally dependent upon for our energy, hopefuly won’t be allowed to put further states at risk.
DaveH, the liberal hack didn’t waste any time jumping on your back.
If we allow Obummer to have his way, nobody will be able to afford to enjoy the beach and pristine waters. She’ll be cuddling up to that DONKEY soon enough.
You must be democrat Earl. My case in point. You critize and tell him to re-think, thus insinuating he is wrong, but you offer no solution, just your opinion that he is wrong. You have to be a liberal, as this is straight out of the liberal playbook. If someone disagree’s with you, they are wrong and it’s the end of the story. Makes me want to go driving around tonight and burn up a tank of gas in your honor.
Good one Txmom, because it’s typical of the liberals to avoid the answers for everything, just that it is so, because they say so.
And for eyeswideopen, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Where do you think Brazil drills? In the mountains? You just keep buying all the propagonda the left wing media and people like Gore sell. I haven’t heard of any oil spills lately in Brazil and for you liberals that push technology, well technology also works for improving oil digging machinery and other safety measures too. And don’t tell me about people who live near the East coast not wanting it. I live 3 blocks from the beach! So stop talking for everyone, another typical liberal move.
John Meyers is correct. All you commenters can opine all you want, but Science & Thermodynamics are on the side of Mr. Meyers. All the name calling doesn’t change the Science. The only viable alternative clean green energy source is hot Fusion, and we ain’t there yet. Its even worse than the article states. Hydrogen technology won’t work either. You can’t win if you use electricity for the electrolysis of water to make hydrogen to make electricity to make more Hydrogen etc. etc. If you make hydrogen by any of the other viable processes from steam,you generate as much CO2 as as you do hydrogen. There is no Wizard with a “magic fix” behind the curtain.
Earl, in typical liberal speak you have questioned evidence that is clearly supported, but in opposition to your misinformed, illogical opinion. Yet offer no sound scientific or engineering proof to substantiate your opinion. Glittering generalities and unscientific gobbledygook are the trademarks of snake oil salesmen. Grace us with the proof that indisputably supports what you espouse.
Here are two green alternatives that the liberals wont even consider. Nuclear Power being one and a proven alternative. The second is building tidal generators. The second is a constant. As long as we don’t blow up the moon, tides will always rise and recede. We have the technology but the environmentalists have blocked every attempt to get it off the ground. Or how about using some of the stimulus money to build and extensive light rail system thoughout the US. Why doesn’t the geniuses in Washington earmark money for a study on that? Oh yea! They might not get their kickbacks if they actually tried to reduce oil consumption in this country.
Robert, I have heard of no Government transportation scheme that has paid for itself. They exist only because the Government has deep pockets (the taxpayer’s pockets).
DaveH…nuclear can’t exist w/o gov’t support..too expensive,too dangerous to be insured,too much extremely toxic waste!
Did I say anything about Nuclear, Donkey?
Dave, MIT study in 2003, found that in deregulated markets nuclear power is not now competive with coal and natural gas. Carbon emissions credits if enacted by government can give nuclear power a cost advantage. For you to have your nuclear, our government which you hate, would have to step in and assist.
Dave does not hate our government. He hates the way it grows and grows itself and sucks the live out of us. I understand that, dont you? Its not the concept of government, or government itself, it is the selfish corrupt people that run it these days that only care about the next box of dollar bills someone is going to give them to do something. They have lost their way. And whether its nuclear, oil, coal or anything else, there will always be waste to deal with. Id rather burn up the oil now and the waste is burnt up. With nuclear, allthough very efficient, there are barrels and barrels of stuff that they bury deep in Nevada and other places, that one day will find their way out of the containers they are in, then where does it go?
Robert, you are correct, all forms of clean energy must be produced in order to guarantee baseload, however this will require not only huge initial investment, but absolute cooperation between the states in allowing the interconnectivity of all energy production, so that energy produced by all renewable sources can be directed to any area across the country that needs it. What I mean is, if the wind drops in one area and they need to draw from California’s grid where the wind is strong on the coast, or they have tidal energy, that can be directed via a truly national grid, to where it’s needed. I believe also there is one MAJOR reason no coal or oil companies want renewables to succeed, and that is purely because there is zero ongoing fuel load to be charged on to consumers. This reduces their capability to expand profits on an inflationary basis as has been the custom for many years. They can only charge for the initial infrastructure costs and ongoing maintenance. This reduces profitability significantly, so they talk down the whole renewable energy debate for purely selfish reasons.
Nuclear is not even close to ‘green’. Mining uranium is full of environmental problems and the waste issue is no ‘green’ process. The generating plants only have a 25 yr or so lifespan…the plant then has to sit idle for 10,000 yrs guarded against entry because of high radiation levels..the power generation uses huge quantities of water every day of operation. Not very ‘green’!
Nuclear would easily be the way to go. Nuclear energy generates 20% of US electricity. Nuclear powerplants produce clean, reliable and affordable electricity. As of 2004, nuclear power provided 6.5% of the world’s energy and 15.7% of the world’s electricity, with the U.S., France, and Japan together accounting for 57% of nuclear generated electricity. There are 104 commercial nuclear generating units that are fully licensed by the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) to operate in the United States. Of these 104 reactors, 69 are categorized a pressurized water reactors (PWRs) totaling 65.100 net megawatts (electric) and 35 units are boiling water reactors (BWR) totaling 32.300 net megawatts (electric). Nuclear power is the only energy industry which takes full responsibility for all its wastes, and costs this into the product.
But these wastes are generated, and from the shows Ive watched on this, they are put into containers and buried deep in the Nevada desert and other places. You and I both know that someday, these things will seep out and get out of their containment packages. My question is, then what happens? It might not be pretty. But you do have a point about the power it creates, quite a bit of energy. But its not really clean, as the by product it leaves behind is much worse that the smoke from my cars exhaust.
Waste Management in the Nuclear Fuel Cycle
(Updated June 2009)
Nuclear power is the only large-scale energy-producing technology which takes full responsibility for all its wastes and fully costs this into the product.
The amount of radioactive wastes is very small relative to wastes produced by fossil fuel electricity generation.
Used nuclear fuel may be treated as a resource or simply as a waste.
Safe methods for the final disposal of high-level radioactive waste are technically proven; the international consensus is that this should be deep geological disposal.
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf04.htm
JeffH…’Happy Thanksgiving’…You said that the nuclear industry takes responsibility for it’s waste…hardly! Your tax dollars go to the multi billion $$ WIPP in Carlsbad,NM to store rdioactive waste for the next 10,000 yrs…the federal gov’t has spent more billions of your tax $$ on the Yucca Mountain,Nevada, debacle for nuclear waste storage..you are paying for it in taxes..I’m paying for it..we’re all paying for it inhigher taxes.
Kathleen, thank you for pointing that out. If I did it,they would just assume that I was trying to deceive them. Happy Thanksgiving to you!!
There is also the danger of a nuclear accident with those plants. Look what happened at Chernobyl. The plants they were building here in this country were stopped because of what happened at one plant in, I believe, Pennsylvania or Ohio. I know Duke Energy was building one on the Ohio River and was forced to stop, losing tons of money and forcing our rates to go up.
Robert, love the tidal generators idea. Here in Fl, we passed a rail bill which the Republican legislators are avoiding funding. Nuclear is a costly source, 6-10 billion and it takes approx 15-18 years to build. One of our major electric companies is going to build one, and are charging the customers in advance for the cost. Can’t wrap my brain around why customers should pay, when they may not ever use that service… may move or die prior to completion. Once again the consumer is underwritting the Corporations cost of doing business.
Eyeswideopen, To Quote you:
“Once again the consumer is underwritting the Corporations cost of doing business.”
Welcome to the free market. If you want energy you must pay for it. You either pay for gas, oil, coal, or electricity. If you do not want to pay, then get yourself a wagon and axe and proceed to the forest and cut down some trees if your conscience will allow.
The existing “Green” technologies are not GREEN. Each windmill takes huge amounts of energy to produce. From smelting & refining the metals, to actually standing the finished product upright. Solar cells, which are very inefficient, are very energy intensive to produce. You must purify silica into molten ingots, and then make the cells, and the finished products. All these are very energy intensive processes.
Corporations exist for profits, not the average person’s benefit. When people realize this, they realize how to use the corporations to benefit their own needs. Corporations are not the enemy.
Also, expecting the government to fix all problems is ridiculous. The average American forgets that he is responsible for his own life and needs, not the government. We live in a federal republic, not a socialist or welfare state. Take responsibility for your own needs. If you do not like a product, such as gas or diesel, then switch to another mode of energy. If enough like minded people make the decision to move away, then new forms of energy will become economically viable and displace oil and gas.
Stop blaming companies, they exist to make profits for their owners/shareholders, not be sub-servant to your wishes. Stop expecting the government to provide your every need. The government was not created to provide your every need. If you want the government to provide for all your needs, move to some other country.
With respect to nuclear energy:
Fusion – decades away. The technology is not even close to making a viable reactor.
Fission – is a great source of reliable energy. Yes, mining the uranium and making the fuel rods is a messy process. The waste is an issue that needs to be settled. But it does work, and is viable now. Also, we need to build commercial breeder and recycle reactors to reprocess the existing used fuel rods into new rods.
With respect to fuel cells: years away, and still lacking the energy density and output for widespread adoption.
Just for your information and to stop all those from asking: I presently work in oil & gas refining, I have previously worked in nuclear waste, fuel cells research and production, solar cells research, and battery research. And if you need more, I have also worked in nano materials development and production. I have a B.S. in Chemistry, and a M.S. in Chemical Engineering.
NM Oil man. at least you admit your bias. I don’t expect the government to underwrite corporations. I expect a business to pick up the cost of doing business. This country has gotten to the point that we are giving IBM 400 million subsidies for their retired employees pharmaceutical needs. Why should my tax dollars help underwrite Ibm retired employees? Subsidies to corporations is not what any normal taxpayer wants to participate in. You obviously want and condone that type of activity. I bet you just loved the bail out too didn’t you? This country is presently being run by Big Corporations and not the citizens. The companies who donate and lobby the congressmen, purchasing their votes, are those who are dictating the laws. We have no representation. The American people are now seeing the corruption involving the major corporations and they don’t like it.
I don’t expect the government to do anything for me, other than to prevent the corporations from becoming monopolies preventing freedom of choice, like what has happened with the Health Insurance Industry. I don’t want my government involved in big business and I don’t want big business involved in government. Is that asking too much? What type of subsidies does your company receive?
Nmoilman,
I never had much faith in wind mills,the more houses and the more factories you build,the more wind mills.I think it is a no win situation.
Blame it on the republican legislators? Come on man. The dems get what the dems want. Quit pointing fingers allready.
Beber, dude the state of Florida is owned and run by Republicans. Which is sad but true. We desperately need some Independents, but they can’t win against the Repubs. Our governor has spent more time on road, campaigning for others, and himself, than he has spent in his office working. Now he is running for Senate, so we see him more, and less work gets done.
Gee, that sounds awful familiar. Who else could have done that?
A science inventor group I work with approached Al Gore with the intention of letting him participate in proven inventions we have. He blew us off and would not look at them. They meet and exceed all the criteria of wind and other present energy saver and creation devices including air and water pollution. They involve magnetism, friction, gravity and other energy sources. We see Al Gore has taken many millions of dollars for foreign auto operations out of everybody elses’ tax money though. Too bad though because we would of made Al Gore more money then he is stealing from US the American taxpayer.
Would be interested in the magnitic generation you are talking about. I have heard of this tech. even bought plans to build a small magnetic generator but plans were not complete or very poor at best. Do you have a workable prototype?
I wouldnt invite Al Gore to eat earthworms. The guy is all about himself and how much money he can get. Thats it.
Gore is making millions touting global warming and he is far from an expert. He could care less about protecting the environment, nor does Obama. It is all about control, manipulation, power and greed. If we would just develop our energy sources in this country we would not have to rely on other nations like we do now. People need to be asking our congressional leaders why they are not pursuing this more urgently instead of continuing to sell America downstream. They don’t care about the deficits. Obamacare will further devastate America’s job base and make more people reliant on government without taking any personal responsibility. What a better way for Obama and crew to create their loyal followers…make them so dependent on government that they can only say yes, sire! Whatever you say! Cap and Trade will further break all American’s and business. Can’t you see the writing on the wall? Doesn’t this resemble a communistic environment they are attempting to create? People need to wake up or it will be too late.
Right on great comment! I would love to know who is really behind Obama so people could see the truth!
Who’s behind Obama, et al? My studied guess would be George Soros via ACORN. I would like to see an organization like WND do a close investigation into how many federal workers have gotten into the federal government through the help of Soros/ACORN. My bet is that there are many in the top levels of all branches that were recruited and employed that can be linked back to these sources. Soros has been at work for a very, very long time to infiltrate our federal, state, and local governments and educational systems with people who are loyal to his global vision.
Without question, George Soros, an avowed Anti-American.
Soros and Obama: http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/soros-and-obama/
This article link has a lot of information;
http://www.examiner.com/x-16146-Wilmington-Religion–Politics-Examiner~y2009m11d10-Barack-Obamas-friend-George-Soros?cid=exrss-Wilmington-Religion–Politics-Examiner
Consider Obama friend and confidant George Soros; far left radical, admitted Nazi collaborator, and billionaire investor who recently bought an $811 million chunk of “Petroleo Brasileiro,” making the Brazilian state-controlled oil company his investment fund’s largest holding.
The fact that the Obama Administration has pledged to bankroll oil drilling on behalf of Brazil seems to have gone unnoticed and/or under reported by the toadying media. Yet the U.S. is lending billions of dollars to Brazil’s state-controlled oil company, “Petrobras,” short for “Petroleo Brasileiro,” to explore and extract a huge offshore discovery in Brazil’s Tupi oil field located in the Santos Basin near Brazil’s largest tourist magnet Rio de Janeiro.
Try to understand how the American people might raise a collective eyebrow since Obama’s friend Soros has been to the White House 4 times in the first nine months of your presidency and just happens to have a huge stake in the Brazilian interest”?
George…’who’s behind Obama’? Let’s see…millions of Dems,independents,liberals,even a few repubs!!
denniso, Jeff, has a conspiracy phobia about Soros. He thinks if Soros would die, everything would be fine… but then he would have to find another conspirator to blame. Every time he says Soros, just say, Sheldon Adelson. He is the Republican counterpart to Soros. Obsession is a habitual addiction.
EWO…good to ‘see’ you again. You’re right about JeffH, but you know most of these people are as bad in their scapegoating of others who are actually trying like hell to fix things. They think it’s a handful of evil doer leaders and they don’t seem to understand that there are millions of smart,committed people working their butts off looking for solutions to huge problems that have been building for decades. I guess things are too complex for most of these people so they overly simplify the issues and lower themselves to name calling and silly talk of impeachment and threats.
A reunion of the TROLLS. I keep posting proof about Soros, and your attempts to counter with Adleson don’t refute my “conspiracy theories” in any way because my facts are just that, facts. Like duh!nniso likes to toss out, “do the research”. DO THE RESEARCH!
Yes, Jeffie, we can see that four visits in 10 months means that Soros input is really needed, and Obama just can’t live without him. Did it ever occur to you that he is visiting someone else? Don’t make me ask the Bush Admin for the records on Sheldon Adelson’s visits, they probably tried to burn the records anyway. Here’s a clue, most business can been done on the secret, phone, without anyone knowing. lol
As much as you would like to, you can’t escape the Soros link, it is everywhere you look on the internet. Of course, if you don’t “fact check”, you wouldn’t find them. Sheldon who?
Sheldon Adelson….the Republican George Soros.
Sheldon who?
Eyes,
Jeffh.and Beb shouldn’t be too hard on George Soros,they said he betrayed his fellow Jewish neighbors,he did it in order to save his family from the nazis.A lot of Jews did the same thing.Would they do the same,if they were in that situation? You better believe they would.
Well ole Thurm buddy I don’t think so! Have you ever checked out Soros credentials? I didn’t think so! Stick to what you do best, critiquing Palin’s moose knickle and watching Prajean videos. By the way, I would have died to save my compadres. Your explanation says a lot about your character!
George Soros bought and paid for the Democratic Party a long time ago. They are in debt to him big time, and are willing to to damning things to this country to pay him back, as he hates America. Tells you something about this party, that they would willingly and knowingly get into bed with this anti American guy.
Beberoni, be careful of the facts on Soros. These two liberal hacks have jumped into the same sack of denial.
Beberoni, thought you might like to read this article.
George Soros
If It Quacks, It Must Be A Marxist
http://www.thenextright.com/category/blog-tags/george-soros
Today, an American – a white knight – has charged forth to expose the brutish attempts to wreck our country. He is working hard to help with the recovery of conservatism and lead the counterattack to save the former “United” States of America. That knight is Glenn Beck.
Beck has repeatedly pointed out that Obama’s message has been unambiguous with respect to his revolutionary intentions. Beck’s exhortations were not innuendo or speculation but direct, factual quotes and video footage of then candidate Obama which would hold up in any court of law. But Americans, largely shielded by the utopian fantasies of the leftist media, did not, or wished not, to hear or see the truth.
Dont mention Glen Beck to the liberals. They are scared to death of him because he exposed the truth about them, you know, the kind you cant get on the national news channels.
It’s not just liberals, it’s intellectual people all over the world. We can’t figure out how seemly rational people can watch Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin and not realize just how boringly average and generally “just-not-smart” these two people are. You’d think some of you Jeezo-Freaks thought they were the second coming. It’s both funny and sad and scary all at the same time, like that ride at the State Fair.
I swear Gore’s nose is growing. Between he, Pelosi, and Obama you could almost bet the farm that we’re on an energy doomsday mission. Maybe so, but only at the hands of that formidable group of liars. Energy? Boy! Have we got some! Everybody’s love child O says the US has only 3% of the worlds supply of oil. Sounds like the “Peak Oil” scare from a few years back has taken hold. It’s time to change our minds and political leaders. Google “Bakken.” It’s the new little “Oil Patch” (little if you listen to the terrible trio) in the Williston Basin of North Dakota. Originally surveyed at 503 billion barrels in three separate shale layers, a fourth layer was located at a 12,000 depth (called the Three Forks – Sannis), and is believed to contain an equal amount if not more. If so, that’s one trillion barrels, and that’s ten times larger than Saudi Arabia’s original 106 billion when ARAMCO preceded OPEC – 40 years ago. And we’ve got it right here at home. All totaled, say a few hundred years at our current consumption rate. Natural gas, a by product of oil production, could not be contained in ND this past winter, so oil producers had to burn it off. So much, in fact, that the burn off could have heated every home & business in ND (for nothing). So if anyone tells you we can’t get oil out of shale, tell them you know all about “fracking” (the lasted production technology) of oil shale deposits. Actually, tell them to go pound sand! Then tell them you’re aware of the other trillions of barrels in Wyoming, Colorado, and most specifically in the oil sands of Utah. Lied to? You bet! And it’s far from being over with that group of Chicago thugs. If you don’t believe this – ask a Liberal. They’re so smart, and usually have all the answers without any research to support the growth of their own noses.
Yep, we have the Climate Calamity, and the Healthcare Calamity (if you believe the Liberals). We need to hurry and solve these problems no matter how much in debt we become. Bull.
The only real Calamity I see was caused by the Real Estate Bubble which was spurred on by government involvement in bank lending practices and too much money creation.
And (correct me if I’m wrong) I’ve heard that much of the stimulus money is going to state governments that have gotten themselves into trouble with their wild spending and high taxation of their citizens.
Big Government is the problem, not the solution.
Undoubtedly to liberal hotbeds that are bankrupt and in trouble like California and New York, where liberalism rules. That is the new norm, reward those for bad behavior, and punish the successful. Our Indiana governor, Mitch Daniels has balanced our budget, after taking over from a Democrat, Frank Obannon who had us loosing money hand over fist. Im surprised Obama doesnt make Indiana pay California, because in the lefts mind, it isnt right that we have, and they dont.
ps to my previous comment. We do NOT want to reach in the pockets of American taxpayers taxes to do it either.
Good for you Jim.
Just like Al Gore and the other politicians, your “facts” are badly distorted. Truth is, the cost of wind power is today competitive with electrical power from coal and oil. Gas and hydro are less costly if you don’t consider the cost of the dams, loss of forests, loss of fisheries, etc. Solar power today is more costly, but that will come down as we discover better ways to harvest it. It is already competitive with coal and oil for heating water and drying clothes in many parts of the world.
As for your claims about useless power from intermittent sources, you need to consider the entire system of coal, gas, oil, nuclear, hydro, wind, solar, and other sources. None of these can stand alone for the next century, but together, they will provide electrical power needs for a growing world economy.
Our energy systems Multiply coal, natural gas etc. and do NOT require nuclear energy although our current systems Multiply power at the receiving source and can use nuclear energy systems power as they exist today. Please be open minded to get the best for You and everyone else.
“(Solar power)..is already competitive with coal and oil for heating water and drying clothes in many parts of the world.”
Are you serious? Did you look the study, or how they arrived at that statistic?
Of course it is competitive when you heat water in Black containers or bags and dry your clothes on a line in the sun! We can do that here too, but much of the world has no other choice. It does produce good numbers for cheap solar power though.
I agree with you – solar technology will get cheaper, and we will find new energy sources, techniques, etc. Unfortunately, Algore and this administration would prefer to eliminate the current, reliable sources we have and prematurely push for a total switch to “green” power that we just don’t have – yet. They don’t WANT to use coal and nuclear power to solve the problem of intermittent power from wind and solar, they just want them gone ASAP! Damn the price tag, damn the loss of freedom from suffocating new regulations.
I sincerely hope someday we can produce mostly “green” energy, but the government’s involvement and control is not the way it will be done fairly or efficiently.
yeah but Gore and Obama sure will fire up the private jet and air force 1 any time they want!!
The problems with wind.
1) It is terribly destructive of wildlife and the environment – its is very “un-green” chewing up millions of birds and bats annually.
2) It generates very little energy and then only intermittantly and must therefor be backed up with traditional coal and gas fired turbines.
3) Wind is not free. My power company owns a huge wind turbine cited at the HQ of its bureaucracy. We paid for it thought our rates. It has been broken for more than 60 days with its blades dismounted and sitting in the parking lot. However they did promise more jobs per killowatt than with any other kind of electricity. Thats like advertising Maytag washers because with Maytag you get more repair jobs per washload so at least they were not lying.
4) If wind is so cost effective why does congress have to force us to buy it? My rates have gone up to pay for this nonsense. More importantly our remaing manufacturing jobs will be forced to relocate to China where the electricity runs even when the wind does not blow.
Sir..Ever seen a large oil tanker spill and what it does to wildlife as well as tourism and fishing and jobs?? The area around the huge spill by the Exxon Valdez in Alaska is still not totally recovered after 15 or 20 yrs. Every energy source’s problems have to be looked at in context.
Really!!!???
Ever see miles and miles of ugly windmills trespassing over ranges of what were beautiful mountains and fields… Ever see the devistation this causes to wildlife in those areas… Ever wonder if we are actually contributing to species extensions ???
duh!nniso is out to save the world, peace love and a sharp knife in your back. Don’t even waste your time argueing with this liberal hack. Watch “it’s” future comments. As has been stated on several other posts, “she is a 9 year old named Gabriela” whose has love for her “world savior Obama” and blind hatred for Bush/Cheney and a short 8 year memory.
I live in California and have seen all the windmills on the Altamont Pass shut down. Ugly, expensive and ineffective waste of resources. The same people that pushed for windpower have turned against them and demanded their removal.
People who live close to those wind farms are beginning to have health problems due to the vibrations they send out. Our politicians have never heard of the old saw, “If it ain’t broke, don’t try to fix it.” We can be self-sufficient by using our own oil, but no, the pols say. Dumbbutts.
Private industry is so much better at finding solutions than the government is. Politicians are politicians and that’s all they’re good at doing. They are not business people and don’t have a clue what it takes to become successful in those fields. All they can do is pass taxes to destroy them or force them to leave this country for a better business climate. We need a complete turnover with some business people running for office.
Even if there were enough oil in the U.S. for us to be “self-sufficient”, we would still have to pass laws banning Americans from buying oil from overseas in order for this to occur. This would be a form of (gasp!) regulation. Furthermore, the law of supply dictates that restricting the world’s oil supplies from reaching our markets would necessarily result in higher prices. I do not think you can drill enough to make up for all the oil coming in from Canada, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Russia, etc.
So if by “self-sufficient” you mean we don’t have to import oil, you are indeed correct. If, however, you mean that we can not import oil and also maintain the same standard of living as we have now, then you are not correct. This would only be possible in a world in which there were no trade-offs.
However, since economics is not value-free and not just about money, you might argue that becoming independent of foreign oil is worthwhile regardless of the cost in order to achieve some higher economic, political, or social goal. Just remember that there is no such thing as a free lunch.
the cost of wind power is today competitive with electrical power from coal and oil…
Cost effective when the wind is blowing, but a total loss of revenue when there is no breeze to offset the cost of hardware, infrastructure, maintenance and liabilities. If those blades aren’t turning, it’s just huge technological artwork.
Billy,
Are you in the wind power industry..are you an expert? I don’t think so. Wind power costs competitive…NO! HUGE government subsidies and political maneuvering in Europe has FAILED miserably in bringing costs in line. In fact..they’ve been doing this for years and are know preparing for regular “brown outs” due to the lack of power available fot its citizens. Withing 8 years consumption will outpace production. Guess what they are contemplating now? Yep…a rapid build up of nuclear power stations. So..who are you to believe?
I live in Texas. We have a choice as to our power provider. You can go to a website called Power to Choose and actually see the electricity rates per kilowat. The power companies list percentages of wind, solar, nuclear and gas. Two years ago wind and solar were quite a lot more, now they are coming down. Still not as cheap as natural gas, but coming down. I wonder why we don’t convert more things to natural gas – we have a hugh supply and our transportation system should be able to convert semi-trucks to natural gas.
Sandy, you are lucky. We only have monopolies controling the electric here in Florida. You are stuck with a provider, much like healthcare insurance, same deal here on that also.
Billy,
If what you say is true (it isn’t) then government wouldn’t need to be involved. Those ideas would sell to the public on the free market. These alternative energy schemes need the force and monetary backing (taxpayer money) of the Government to exist. This might not always be the case. I think some economically viable technologies will someday be designed. We need to wait until that is true. If we pursue the current Liberal course, we will be too impoverished to create those technologies when they are needed in the future.
Billy, come on, don’t you want to just rely on the oil of our ancestors? How do you think Bush and Cheneys fortune will stay intact without the gazillions they make on the oil deals they cut? It is nice to see that some have the ablility to look into the future and embrace the change to stop us from making all the middle eastern countries filthy rich from our gluteous comsumption of oil.
The PARROT returns with Bush/Cheney Bush/Cheney Bush/Cheney
Polly want a cracker?
Hey (words removed for offensive content) how are you??? Been sticking close to DaveH?? How are the gun issues going? Any bills I need to know about that aren’t moving or has that issue been beat to death? I see you both are into the name calling again. Can’t just use your intelligence to win a point? Too bad. Hope everything is going well for you.
Hi, didn’t miss you at all. Thanks for the vacation. Saw your name and I immediatley thought of sewage and waste. Sorry I can’t join you in you underground lair. Hope you understand, I can’t handle the stench. My guns are locked and loaded waiting for hunting season to open. Not sure what gun legislation you’re talking about? I’ve always been up to date on that stuff, you know, with my membership in the NRA and Gun Owners of America. They keep us informed of the truth and facts, unlike your sources.
What is a ditto head? Doesn’t ring a bell with me.
Jeffh,
JeffH,
You just stuck your foot in your mouth again.Nancy Polosi is a descendant of jews.How could she be a Nazi?I am running out of crackers,please gon easy onn them.
Well I will say this, that this wind power is very effective, if you have like 5 million acres of land to place one of these every 10 feet apart. Other than that, your not going to get squat from them. Ive seen the studies, and they cost more than they create.
…not to mention the cost of tearing them down when the enviros decide they do more harm to the poor little birdies.
John,
You are speaking the propaganda of Big Energy. In an additive sense Wind + Hydro + Tidal + Solar can more than meet our energy needs. For example: even at $3M installed cost a 3MW turbine will produce energy at 1/2 of today retail electric rates over a 12 year life. This includes service and maintenance AND the projected life of one of these machines is 25 years! So you get 12 years of free energy so to speak. In addition the Army Corp of Engineers together with GE published a report that outlined how America could easily capture more than enough electricity just by utilizing deep-water wind energy in the Atlantic ocean. Not to mention that for every 10 turbines put in place you create 1 full time service job. And oh, more birds are killed annually via commercial air flight than would ever be hurt by us erecting a sea boarding wind farm. (But I guess in your opinion the damage done to our air and water from our abuse of oil & coal, responsible for our nation’s dramatic increase in respiratory illness is ok?)
Truthfully John, you are so wrong here (especially considering the personal liberty angle) I’m wondering who is behind your site.
Why are wind turbines considered “green” They kill millions of insect controlling birds and bats annually.
GE, which was hated by you Marxists when it operated profitably, but now while its a big loser is the largest manufacturer of these montrosities – is GE “big” or is it like a mom and pop business?
If people actually wanted these things there would be no mandates from government idiots who dont know a damn thing about profit and loss. Its the same reason all of our jobs are going overseas – the Chinese are not this stupid.
Despite your stupid clean air rant, its only cheap energy that has made the longevity and the standard of living of Americans the envy of the world. One hundred years ago people heated their homes with coal. My father thought snow was supposed to be grey util he moved to the country. We will be returning to open hearth burning of coal as our primary source of energy, simply because no one will be able to afford your stupid “green energy” Its already happening here. How many carbon credits will you need to burn logs to heat your house?
You can figure the goverment will make you buy at least 3 million carbon credits at one cent a credit. Al Gore will be more than willing to sell you some of his credits (just a little perk he gets for being a former Vice-President). This way, he’ll be able to take his jets anywhere in the world and pay for it and Tipper can still do her shopping at Saks or Bergdoff.
People around here, (we live in a small town) already use fireplaces and woodburning stoves to heat their homes in the winter. Sometimes you can hardly breathe outdoors for the smoke-filled air. We here are total electric. I dread to think what our bill would be if some of this so-called green energy is put into place. There is not enough wind here for a wind farm, we have a lot of gray days in the winter for solar, so what do we do? I guess we’ll have to start using our fireplace, but I don’t want to unless it’s necessary.
I myself love the smell of wood burning. Reminds me of camping.
Let’s see, I could believe Real or I could believe Cato. Tough decision.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-280.html
Thanks for the link to a steaming pile of bias. An oil and gas guy from Texas doesn’t like wind power. Now that was unexpected. Did you notice that all of the statistics that “JR Ewing” was using were all from the early to mid 90s? You post this link like it’s relevant to anything in the 21st century? Couldn’t you google something from Fox News that at least quoted data from after 1995? Did you actually even read it? C’mon Dave, you need to put in a little more effort.
Here’s some points to ponder… Wind power is not noisy. The second and third generation turbines are more efficient and less deadly to birds. Wind turbines are no uglier and use about as much materials as your average oil rig. Wind turbines were never meant to replace other sources of electricity, it’s meant to take some stress off the overall grid. One last thing, you Americans need to know about wind power, you need to build these turbines in places where the wind actually blows (that’s what makes them work).
Curtis, Dave, only recommends web sites that are Libertarian. He will tell you to read, Thomas Sowell, Ayn Rand, Cato Institute, he is just a Libertarian party pusher, looking for new members. As an elitist, he only has one agenda, to make his party look appealing and to incite the opposing parties, by offering the statement government is force to most situations.
I disagree. I don’t think he’s an elitist, more like an isolationist or an anarchist. He just wants to be able to do whatever he wants to do with little or no regard for anyone else while he’s doing it. And while he’s doing whatever he wants, he doesn’t want to pay taxes. Honestly, what’s wrong with that? I like the concept, but when you live in a large city or on a planet with six billion people, isolationism and anarchy just aren’t viable options. I like the way DaveH has a passion for his beliefs, (words removed for offensive content)
(By the way, didn’t everyone read Ayn Rand in highschool or college? I enjoyed Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead.)
Curtis, required reading for us and I was in Texas. When you have been here a little longer you will see that he really is practicing ethical egoism, and is totally pro corporations with no regulations. He really meets the criterion of elitist. He is also very angry as he was once married to a Dem, who stole his money. So, if you are a Liberal, run for your life. I don’t sit around saying, oh, I really want to pay taxes. Instead, I sit around and ask why we have those who can avoid taxes using off shore accounts. Why can’t everyone just contribute to our infrastructure and accept that taxes are the reason we are civilized?
The un-American is hooked to the TROLL brigade now. What hole did you crawl out of to scurrey up a rope and get on the boat to this dreadful America?
When you see www on your computer is means World Wide Web. I’ll type this slowly so you can understand – it means anyone, anywhere in the world can play. I don’t have to be in America to post on this site. Pretty neat concept, eh? You refer to me as “the un-American” like it’s supposed to be an insult. I can’t be an American because I wasn’t born in America and I don’t live in America. I came to this site looking for intelligent debate and discussion and sometimes I have found it. But you(WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) You add nothing. I can’t remember reading anything that you’ve posted that wasn’t derogatory. You are NOT the reason your country’s founding fathers wrote the first amendment. I await your brilliant response.
…the thinking of people like you and your ilk is what our forefathers fought to protect this country and it’s future from. You said you wanted a healthy debate when you came to this site, but you have done very little of that. You chose to verbally attack Americans with your socialistic mentality. Your agitation, ridicule, and “I’m smarter than thou” attitude falls right in line with the “liberal extremists” TROLLs you have so graciuosly embraced. You fit right in with them! You might have had no other choice but to accept the cards you have been dealt in life, where I come from, I still have a choice.
Curtis…Anyone JeffH disagrees w/ is ‘unamerican’, whether one lives here or not. In his mind, nonamericans are as evil as unamericans, because we americans are ‘the best’.
Welcome to the site Curtis,american or not. As you’ve noticed, there are many blowhards here who spew hate and lies..some of us try to set them straight.
…and some like duh!nniso just spew to spew. How ya doin Gabriela? I see you snuck back to the ‘puter.
If you can afford them, and have enough land to put up enough of them to power your needs. Of course, being a liberal, you think that the government should take care of all that for you. Sorry to burst your bubble, but they dont work efficiently enough. And they cost too much, and they wear out and require very expensive maintenance. Give me a barrel of oil anyday.
Will you still be saying that when gas costs $12.00 a gallon like in Europe? No, you will be screaming with the rest of the crowd. We were supposed to have started reducing our oil consumption back in the 70′s but the Oil companies won out and here we are today. Dependent on the Muslim countries you all hate so much, making them richer and richer.
The only way that is going to happen is if the democrats stay in power, and do the continual raise the tax thing like they love to do. Other than that, its not going to happen, so quit being paranoid.
Beberoni, where were you last year at this time when gas was $5.00? Sleeping?
John Myers presents facts. The “green” dreamers respond with their usual pie in the sky dreams. “Cost of solar will be competitive”—no date. “Wind will always blow”—yes, but not necessarily where the turbines are—do we need mobile turbines?
Put the wind tubines right in front of the White House and the Capital Building. It’s scientifically proven the wind is always blowing in those two places.
Good one Robert.
Too bad they can’t harness all the hot air that comes out of that place.
Anymore, our government is like a fan. You stand it front of it and it blows. You stand behind it and it sucks. And when you stand beside it, it doesnt do a darn thing for you.
The article is incorrect on several points. Namely:
1)Alternating current can be stored for future use;
2)Direct current can be stored for future use;
3)The cost of solar arrays has dropped to 10% of what it was at the date of reference stated in the article
4)Geothermal energy extraction was not even touched upon. Very accessible, viable and relatively cheap in several areas of the U.S.
There is no economically viable way of storing the gigawatts of energy that industrialized societies need. No, lithium ion batteries will not suffice. Besides they are pu together with made with man made “chemicals” which are “unnatural” and therefore icky
Acording to Dr Gore you just dig down a little bit and its millions of degrees down there. Why havent you gotten your shovel out and solved the problem. No “big energy” required for that – just put your abck into it.
As for fossil fuel driven jet travel for all these globe trotting bureaucrats to attend their gals global warming conventions at world class resorts spas, I have a suggestion: man powered aircraft. Everyone bureaucrat simply peddles hislef accross the pacific in “green aircraft”. After all the concept has already been “proven” with with the appropriately named Gossamer Albatross. We just need to send all of our global warming bureaucrats overseas in them – either singly or in aircraft with 400 sets of peddals. All led by Dr Gore; Id love to see his fat ass do some real work of a change.
Just curious (and off topic) but were you in Mojave while Paul McCready was developing his Gossamer series for man powered flight? Exciting days…
Mr. Wizard, If it could be done economically the government wouldn’t need to be involved.
If it could be done economically, the government wouldnt be involved.
Dr,wizard,
What about geothermal energy extraction? I am curious.
It amazes me that the global alarmest are the ones on the taxpayer payroll and the one that say it is garbage are not. I guess if the feds were to give you millions for the “right” answer many of us would change our point of view. Ask Algore how much me makes a year off selling carbon credits to morons.
How anyone in this country, while seeing factories darken and small business be intentionally wiped out, can believe “green” will save us is beyond me.
We will spend our tax money (ok, borrowed funds)to help develop technology which will then be sent to Asia to be manufactured.
We have off shored so many industries already, does ANYONE in this country look at tags on their products anymore?
The one thing I do know will happen is that the current administration is going to drive the prices of fossil fuel energy up so high with taxes and regulations, that alternatives will begin to look cheap in comparison.
Between forced insurance, more pharm pills, Cap ‘n Tax and forced unionism the average American isn’t going to have any money left to spend on anything else. I am beginning to see Clinton, Gore and Obama’s plans succeed. They are eliminating our middle class to plunge us all into third world poverty.
The present administration + Gore’s B.S. and Hot air
may be the cause of global warming. {If it was factual ?? NOT !.}
Clintons, Gore’s and Obama’s political correctness liberalism baloney if over half the reason we struggle today. Weve got the oil resources here, but they dont want to use them, because we might kill a wooly worm that is buried 6′ down. These guys are bad for America.
One again Myers’ says the only solutions are resources — the very stuff he is selling. Someone needs to tell him it is time to get away from resources. What made America rich was new technologies and money.
What made the United States rich was Freedom, which we no longer have.
How many Liberals, do you think, live their lives the way their neighbor thinks they should? Probably not many. Yet, we send our neighbors to DC and think that they suddenly have become enlightened. They haven’t. They are partying hearty on our tax dollars.
How many Republicans live their lives the way they should? I live in a Republican neighborhood, and no one was obeying the watering restrictions, so the water police had to come and force the entire group to obey, by fining them 250.00 a pop. That did get their attention. Very few recycle, can’t be bothered, too much work, and they fertilize their backyards even though we live on a lake. You want to blame only the Liberals for everything, you just don’t make any sense. Everybody is guility, from both parties. You are so biased against one party it is actually funny, since it was brought on due to a personal decision to marry a democrat.
Polly want a cracker?
(Comment removed for offensive content)
Jeffh,
You can have a cracker.
I have crackers for all three of the Parrots. C’mon, Polly want a cracker?
ditto.
They are living well off of our backs arent they? Pretty nice pension plan theyve set up for themselves there also, that we have to pay for them the rest of their stinking lifes. What a bunch of baloney. I have to say baloney because C–P gets removed because its offensive.
I wouldn’t beleive a word that comes out of Al Gores mouth. This is all about him making more and more money. Evidently needs to have lots of attention and this is the only way he has of getting it.
Windmills, solar and bio-fuels are already being financed by the tax payers today.
There is no way that these will ever become self supporting by themselves.
Each and every one of them consumes more energy than they produce. That includes the full lifetime of the first two.
Like oil,coal and nuclear are not subsidized by the gov’t? Do some research.
You wouldn’t know what the word “research” means! Go back to your trough, It’s feeding time at the zoo.
That would be the troll trough.
As if the board Harpy does any research. Where does such a Donkey get off being so arrogant?
Learned from the best, YOU!!!
Donkette.
It appears in today’s episode JeffH is sneering but not using his usual swear word, ‘liberal’. Way to change things up Jeffy! As usual a JeffH post isn’t complete unless is joined to a DaveH post. (Must be tough being Siamese twins trying to use the same computer.) Ahh DaveH, the guy who thinks his links to a disgruntled libertarian’s website means he’s got the answer to everything. Nice work boys, you always add so much to the discussion. Intelligent debate requires more than these hackneyed responses to everything posted by your friend Denniso. Trying raising the bar, try leading by example, or at least try something different.
A new member of the TROLL brigade has made an appearance. He’s not American but he is definately a liberal hack. Also identified by his man-luv affair with the Obama administration and marxism.
JeffH can’t handle anyone w/ a different view point.You’re automatically wrong and he’ll not listen,let alone think, and then engage in name calling. How bright is that??
Maggot! Now how’s that for name calling, coward!
LMAO…
So, since you didnt slam me, let me interject. You raise your tirade against DaveH and JeffH, but you say nothing useful yourself, just slam them around a bit. Typical liberal sentiment. Bring something useful to the table Curtis Lowe. Maybe buy 5000 acres and put up a couple thousand wind turbines to power your house. Hope the wind blows the day you need it. Maybe the government will pay for it for you, to go along with your welfare and food stamps. You cannot hide it, you are a hands out guy, waiting for the government to take care of you. It shows.
I live in the Palm Springs area where we have those beautiful wind mill farms, there is plenty of sun for solar power which is being developed as this article is being written. The tree huggers are going nuts, the energy prices are skyrocketing and Al Gore is like a dirty diaper!
anybody ever see the size of al gores home?? it’s like the size of a small school or medium hospital …… and he is going to preach on energy !! what a joke ( sadly not a funny one) !! he and nancy pelosi must be neck and neck in the fight for hypocrite of the century !!
They are Democrats. What do you expect out of them? This is what todays left is all about, hypocrisy. Do as I say, not as I do. They are todays Pharisee’s.
Al Gore and the rest of the green marxist are not about new clean energy. This is about profit for them and control of the American people and world government. Just as the Health Care Bill is not about healthcare, but control of every facet of your life!
Ken S.
You are so right I am tired of all of this all of it is hipe no matter who is saying especially BO he is such a liar he can’t even tell us the truth where he was born and that is bottom line if you lie about that can you imagine what else he is lying about.
For those of you that believe in wind power you should speak to the companies that are forced by the goverment to buy this energy. The power is produced in such lower frequency that the purchasers loses money pulling the power down the lines before they can transmit it to their customers.
I have a suggestion for all the tree huggers out there. Form your on country and impose all the goverment you want on yourselves and leave me, and those who don’t believe, alone!
It has always puzzled me that people that believe in these hair brain ideas do not offer to pay for them out of their on pockets. Why must they insist that everone pay for and change their life stiles. While in most cases they don’t practice what they preach. How many politicians that have bought in to this have sold their gas guzzlers and started walking. How many still fly every where they go.
Compare Al Gore’s house to George & Laura Bush’s ranch house. See who is the greater environmentalist. Gore is self-serving and egotistical. He has no solution, he only makes selling nothing.
All of these people make me so ill I really don’t have the words. For the most part they more money than sense.
That’s right Richard. As the saying goes “Money talks and BS walks”.
You are on the right track for discussion now. I have been involved in electrical/electronics most of my life. You may recall that recently T Boone Pickens was advertising for alternative energy using wind power. I’m a little vague on this but, I think after ordering a huge quantity of windmill generators, he ran into trouble with the grid delivery system in Texas.
If you think about it, what ever you generate at the end of the system can only be used in the local area because all of those sub stations step down the voltage for distribution. There is no means of jacking the voltage up without high wattage loss in the process to get it back in at the grid level of power. It’s like trying to take rainwater off of your land and pump it back up stream to the source for redistribution. You would have to generate 265,000 volts to get it back into the grid plus, lose most of the power on the powerlines to “transport” it to where it is needed. I would suspect this is the kind of problem encountered with the grid in Texas.
I have friends that live at the 3500′ level above Lake Chelan in Washington State. They are totally self-sufficient. They use a combination of batteries, solar and a small wind turbine. The cost for this was less than $30,000. The house is about 2500 SQFT. They have pretty harsh winters – snow most of the time and temps near 0. Summer is cool with crisp nights. So, looking at what my power bill used to be up there (around $300/350 in winter), they would get paid back in 10 years, not counting the mortgage interest deduction they receive off their income taxes or any rises in future power costs which we all know are coming. So, with that said and Cap & Trade on the horizon, I think they have made a pretty smart investment.
I envy your friends! I have researched a similar set-up for our home, for a similar price tag, but unfortunately cannot afford the start up at this time.
This may be a possible solution…? It would probably be less expensive for the government to finance similar set ups for the majority of the homes/buildings in the country than it would for continued grants and subsidies for developing the big picture solutions. The technology already exists for these set-ups, we know they work, it would create jobs, encourage new research, development, competition in the PRIVATE (as opposed to government)sector. Sounds good to me so far…
Anything the Government “Finances” comes out of the tax payer’s pockets…
You forget that big government is in the pockets of business – mostly oil and gas business. They DON’T want us to be self-sufficient.
Those dirty “Big Oil” guys. Darn them. Sell me a gallon of gas for $ 2.43 so that I can drive 30 miles in the comfort of my Honda CRV. Yeah, those guys are terrible. They are ruining this country, why with letting me heat my house in the winter to keep me from freezing to death. Those dirty evil scoundrels. Selling me a product that is cheaper a gallon than milk. You know you pay more for a gallon of perfume, a gallon of ketchup, a gallon of eyedrops, a gallon of soda pop, and everything else. Some of these 10 times as much. Yet people like you demonize the oil companies. It sure is easy these days to go after the successful. If your interested in the truth at all, its like this. They have a product. They have a product I want. They sell this product. I gladly buy this product. They make money. I get the service out of this product that I expect. I go my way. They go their way. If you dont like them, hey, park your car, move to where you dont need heat, and be happy. But leave me and my rights to live as I please, alone. Thank you very much.
Bebe, would be glad to leave you alone. Have you forgotten that all American are subsidizing the Oil companies, and we don’t have a choice? You are aware that when your girl Palin, got that extra money for the citizens of Alaska, by charging the Oil companies more, that the deficit came right from the American tax payers? They write if off on their cost of doing business and we make up the difference. It was also our tax dollars that paid to purchase the land from Russia, and the rest of us don’t get any rebates. You need to do a little more research prior to slaming someone who doesn’t want to provide more money to the big corporations. Government is Force, remember?
I still love my oil. Im not buying what your selling.
Beber, that’s because you are selfish. Why don’t you just tell your grandkids now that you want to make all the Arab countries richer and don’t give two sh ts about their future. Just be honest and tell them you have no problem with us giving them 700 BILLION dollars a year for the oil. You Conservatives are funny, claim to hate the Muslims yet you against any changes which would stop the flow of money to them. Hyprocrisy at it’s finest!!!
I just love it when you liberal hacks attach the “hate” word to anything you don’t agree with. You maggots are the only fools that use “hate” regularly. Shouldn’t let your frustrations of life lead you!
We have soem neighbors who put a second mortgage on their house to buy their very own wind turbine to both make their own electricity and to sell all the extra power back to the power company – so very green and so very utopian.
They invested $75,000 in their scheme but I have to give them credit, they funded their windmill folly uniquely – with their own cash.
Outcome after two years:
Electricity produced so far: Not even a millwatt
Status of wind turbine: after mutliple repairs, still broken.
Status of company who built it, sold it, and “guaranteed” it: bankrupt!
Status of these former green utopians. In debt for $75,000 for a really swell antennea mast and much much wiser for their “green” losses.
They can keep their ugly wind turbine fan farms. If they want it, let them buy it. If I want oil to heat my house and gas to drive my car, let me buy it. No one is forcing us. But they so quickly demonize the “Big Oil” companies, and act like these wind farm things are the next coming of Christ, yet time and time again its shown that the return isnt worth the investment. Of course liberals are for this, as they see it, like everything else in their minds, that its the governments responsibility to take care of everything for them. Not me. Give me my car and gas, and Im good.
Sandy,
Money has time value which needs to be factored into the equation whenever there is a large capital investment. Also future maintenance costs would need to be considered. To really find out if their investment was cost effective would take some considerable calculations.
That being said, I applaud them for their efforts to be energy self-reliant, and hope it works for them.
Three-hundred fifty million people could not do this. Most don’t have that kind of money to begin with to put in all that “green” energy sources. If the government forces us to go solar, etc., we wold have to sell our home as we don’t have that kind of money either. We get just enough to live on in our retirement plus a little to go out to eat once a week. Our main source of entertainment is visiting our children or they come here to visit.
Well I guess we are all screwed then! I have heard recently that we were lied to about how much oil there is left in the world, which makes other sources of energy sound a lot more appealling. Problem is, no one is getting started with any of them. The $10 Billion solar energy program sounds ridiculous. Why can’t they just start trying to make solar power cheaper? The reason it is so costly is because they haven’t put enough time into it yet and there is probably only a few big companies running the show and making the prices (like everything else in the country!) I like what Robert had to say about Nuclear power and tidal generators. Why do the environmentallists not want that? Does it destroy oceans or something? I know Nuclear power could be quite risky with making sure there is no exposure to waste and such but I have never even heard about tidal generators. I agree with some too that even if wind and solar cannot do the job on it’s own, if you combine every possible alternate energy, you will have something to work with. But I have a feeling that instead of people trying to set things right before the big struggle for energy it will all come down in the end to who has the money to afford it. That is why people like Al Gore don’t really care. They know that in the end when some people cannot cook their food or light their homes they will be okay, because they have been taking our money and sitting on it so they can see another day. I guess that is just the way of the world. Instead of working together, why don’t we all just fend for ourselves since it’s more convenient that way? Sure it won’t work in the end but that is just a lesson that will have to be learned.
90% of all solar panels are manufactued in China where coal fired electricty provides reliable energy for their production plants.
They sell them to us (on credit) to help us go out of business faster than we can without their help.
Lena,
There is no more efficient system than the free market. When people are investing their own money in an effort they work a lot harder to achieve their goals. The government, which is investing other peoples’ money in its schemes, really doesn’t need to care if they work or not.
DaveH…the free market didn’t win WW2, didn’t get us to the moon,didn’t launch all the satellites for you gps and phone..it did give us the great depression and this now great recession. Markets also don’t do well w/ healthcare or education. They need cooperation w/ a gov’t large enough to help and support them and to regulate smartly..unlike what Bush did.
We won WW2? Sure, many of the victim countries were turned over to Communist suppression at the hands of Russia for nearly 40 years. What did the Government win?
You are so full of bull. You speak your opinion as if it was fact. It isn’t. So how do you benefit from the trough? Government employee? Union member? Welfare recipient? Come clean Donkey.
Anyone who has half-a-brain knows Government fails in almost all endeavors. Of course that means you don’t know.
You’re only pointless…
Both the Depression and the current Bust were caused by government tinkering with the marketplace. In the case of the Depression, there was too much money creation, followed by protectionism. Our current bust was caused by excess money creation and government coercing banks to lend to unqualified home buyers who later defaulted on their loans causing a cascading effect.
I guess all the unfunded war effort, unfunded medicare advantage bills, and all the new government regulations that Bush passed, had nothing to do with the deficit and the bust? What until you see how much and how many new regulations that passed, have cost us. Go Bush, Go!!!
http://reason.com/archives/2008/12/10/bushs-regulatory-kiss-off
As I said earlier, about the oil companies. I like to buy gas to make my vehicle move me around, and I like to buy natural gas to heat my house in the cold Indiana winters. If those on the left really think that the “Big Oil” guys are these evil demons they project them to be, then they need to sell off their cars, move to a warm climate, and buy a million acres and put up thousands of these wind turbines to power their house. Good luck affording it, and good luck affording the repairs to them, and good luck getting enough energy out of them. Ill give them that right to pursue this all they want, but they need to give me the right to buy the gas I want. Me, Ill take gas.
Beberoni, what happens with the old batteries that will wear out in a few years? Opps! I’ll drive my 15+mpg SUV until it stops, then pop a few grand into it and drive it another 200,000 miles. Have you ever thought about how nice it is to have the choice of spending your money when and where you like. If you want something, but the price is outrageous, you can shop elswhere or just do without until prices drop. Ahhh! Freedom of choice, I sure like it.
Amen brother. How much are they going to charge for the new batteries, and how much to dispose of the old ones, then where are they going to throw them away at, because they will have to throw them away. So how is that good for the environment. They just traded burning it and the waste drifting away in the air, to burying it in the ground, where it will eventually leech out and get into our drinking water. Hmmm. Makes me think about it.
First; wind power and solar power are a blight on the land, requiring acres and acres of it. What do the environmentalists say about that? Second; the cheapest way to produce energy and to create jobs is to develop the resources we already have, not try to create new ones. This country doesn’t have to be dependent on foreign oil if the government will allow us to develop our own oil fields. This country has more oil in the ground than almost all the rest of the world combined and it’s on-shore and close to the surface. To get at light, sweet crude, which is what we have, is a very cheap process and along with oil comes the natural gas that we also produce more of than anyone else. I was always of the opinion that this country was using so much foreign oil to help deplete the rest of the worlds oil supplies and we, then, would be the top dog in the industry, selling oil around the world and raking in the dough, making our economy grow by leaps and bounds. However, with the environmentalist’s agenda and the apparent willful destructive attitude of our present government, our economy has gone to pot and jobs are going down the tubes. I say again; the best way to go is to develop what we have and in the meantime try to develop the other sources of energy. We are just destroying our country doing what we are doing.
Lester is the first person who has talked with any real intelligence on this whole subject. This country could have been self sufficent developing our own “God Given” resources if our so called “representatives” in Washington weren’t there to better their own wealth by listening to lobbyists who line their pockets instead of using common sense to benefit our country. We used to lead the world in development but now our government is trying to turn us into a third world country of which we have never been. It is truly discusting
Kay, that is because our government is being run by the big corporations who don’t want competition from the little guys.
Well said.
The economy will rebound in 2012 when we all vote the tax monsters out of office. This is the reason for things being where they are. Business held their cash to pay the new raised taxes, and they know these liberals are rescinding the tax cuts in 2010, as they have allready said so, and that is going to cost business more in tax dollars, butt will also cost many more, in the millions, of jobs lost. But in 2012, whether we elect a republican or an Independant, such as a Libertarian or a Constitutionalist, business will start to build and hire again. But its not going to happen with a left wing liberal Democrat tax machine at the helm.
Get a clue Liberals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckksvu-MOIo
(part 2, etc. are adjacent to this video)
I am so sick and tired of listening to all these wealthy people just go back home and shut-up.
So you’re tired of Al Gore, the Rockefellers, the Kennedys, Nancy Pelosi, George Soros, and many others?
You said it, in spades.
Dick Cheney, Bush I, Sheldon Adelson, Dick Armey, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’reily, Rpuert Murdoch, fit right into your little group.
TROLL you forgot Hannity and Beck!
Didn’t forget them, they are paupers compared to the rest. (Word removed for offensive content)
Nope. Eyes, Maryland Mom, Curtis Lowe, Norm, Smilee, denniso, and the rest of this ill fated ilk.
Bebe, easier to just say, anybody who doesn’t buy the Republican party line. The repubs have become so much like the Dems, that you can’t even tell them apart anymore. Spending during the last admin, should tell you that there is no longer a line they won’t cross. Generalizing and demonizing about view points that are different, is the beginning of a ideology that will only accept one party, one religion. Sounds like a point in history that was very ugly. Do you recall what happened?
No, what Im saying is anybody that buys into the democrats line of bull is not very smart or America loving. Just give George Soros your money and have fun.
I’ll never understand why the greenies don’t support nuclear power as a CO2 neutral alternative? Have you ever seen the Palo Verde plant outside Phoenix, AZ? It’s the biggest we have in this country, and was built in a desert. The price of its power was dictated by the greenies who control the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. They’ve managed to control the process to the point where no two nuclear plants in this country are the same design…..surrendering the cost savings of scale.
And, as for the radiation issue, most of the greens don’t realize that they are irradiated from space continually (cosmic rays – day and night)and if they ever go somewhere in a jet airplane they really get irradiated.
Palo Verde is San Onofre’s sister plant.
San Onofre has 2 units operating, Unit 2 and Unit 3, which are identical.
I’ll bet a lot of them bake in the sun in order to look the same skin color as Obama or close to it.
And the wimpy ones spray it on.
I am putting my comment back in. You have shown your racism and now you need to own it.
Surprised that you let your racism show so obviously. Sad, to think that you were a teacher. Is that what you taught your kids?
I do not agree with this at all. Sounds like old school protectionism. I invested in solar panels for my home 4 years back. Now I have not only eliminated my monthly power expense, but receive a check for power I put back into the grid.
The oil and coal industries can smear alternative energy all they like, but I have seen the future, and it is clean, affordable, and efficient.
Hey thats great I’m really happy for you. How many square feet of solar cells do you own?
Where do you live?
How much did they cost?
What is their maximum capacity in kilowatts hours per sunny day?
How many kilowatt hours can you store?
How many kilowatt hours do you sell back to the power company and what do they pay you per KWh
Also, I’m pretty sure that the power companies are subsidized or forced by government to take back the excess power.
Dave, would you prefer to keep paying oil subsidies to Oil companies? Oh, that’s right, you are pro corporate, and think it is ok, for the richest companies to get government subsidies. You are funny, you like government interference when it is convenient for your purpose of making money for the corporations. Have you ever taken the side of the regular consumer?
…and praytell, what doesn’t our government subsidise anymore?
Jeff, by Gosh, I think you finally got it. The government is being run by corporations.
Big money doesn’t just come from corporations fool! Soros uses his 527′s to control this current one. I never said corporations didn’t pay out big money for special treatment. Hello!
Jeff, darling, you need to check Forbes 500, Many more are richer than Soros. Your conspiracy theory is not up to date.
You must live where you get lots of sun. We, here, have now had two gray days in a row with two more coming.
Michael, good for you. Smart move.
Good for you. I priced them out and couldnt come near to being able to afford them. Plus I have seen a few houses around here with them, and what an eyesore. When I talked to the people, they said if they had to do it all over again, they wouldnt have done it. The payback they said wasnt worth it. Also if you need repairs done on these, hello, boy will you be in for a surprise. Good luck.
Maybe you need to go and take a look at Gore’s home in Tenn to really see how ” Green ” he really is, NOT! Gore and the rest of the liberals are a JOKE.
Al Gore – Head Pharisee
The numbers shown in this article seem to be very biased. the power source for many green methods is free, it looks like you have centered on old installation costs rather than long term operational costs. hydroelectric is not mentioned yet here in the southwest it has multiple benefits. In San Diego 90% of the rain goes out to sea unhindered.
Many of the renewable sources have peaking utility for power.
One of the things about wind power locally generated is that it will produce power when winds are high and heating power is required. And here in the southwest when weather is hot and winds are low solar typically is efficient. Things such as water transfer, distallation can benefit by site generated power.
i think these are considerations.
My belief is that ALL military bases should have energy independence from the main power grid. This would be a good place to do analysis and funding.
I would like to see Congress go of the grid and become totally green; swear off ALL use of fossil fuels. Lets bring real horse manure back to Washington; its natural home
Charlie..I agree the nimbers are slanted to make green look bad..we all know that numbers can be twisted to help a point of view.
Okay, let’s say that these ‘clean’ alternative energies are economical. Then why does Government have to force consumers and companies to use them.
Do you believe that these companies just prefer to pollute?
I agree Dave. If they are good and affordable, they will sell themselves. People will glady buy them. Just like I pull up to the pump in my car and gladly buy gas, because I get out of it what I expect, and I can afford it. If this stuff was good, reliable, and affordable, everybody would do it. But in reality, its not that way, and those on these threads know it. They know it. But their little green thumbs wont let them admit it.
Here is the the bottom line. I have always enjoyed Science Fiction, and have spent my life studying this issue.
There is some thing to be said for alternatives in energy and it is this. We have the wrong idea. All ideas I’ve seen try to prolifictae the bureacratic. This country was built on the indevidual not the collective.
1) More energy efficient forms of appliances coupled with a push for independant (single hoome sized) power stations.
2) Our techknology has taken us to the edge of the solar system, yet the computer I’m writting this on will not last another (2) years. Greed has it “through it away” instead of durrable. We are already sheep and plans are on the way to slaughter.
3) As I’ve seen LEDs where once very cheap. Now if you where to try and light your home with them you’ll see the price has increased.
4) should a form of cheap energy be developed to free mankind, JP Morgan or Chase would be there to keep it out of reach. Just ask Tesla. Oops thats wright he died in obscurity. After all he added to techknology he is hardly recognised.
Where did you receive your degree?
Tesla like many geniuses, including Newton, was also a fool. His power transmission scheme (through the air) would have earned him a quick assasination at the hands of our greenies.
The best method of not having your tax dollars looted is simply not to send them in to Washington DC – you earned ‘em, you spend ‘em.
What do you mean where did he get his degree? Can’t you see he got a K in technology?
Sir Gareth,
He got his degree at the same college as Beberoni.Beb told everybody he earn a Ph.d until Eyes caught him in that little fib.I had my doubts too.How could a truck driver have a Ph.d?We get any more of these born again Christians,Sarah (dipstick)Palin won’t have any problem being elected dog catcher.
Never stopped your feeble eyes from staring at Palins crotch did it? I’m sure your twisted eyes were searching desperatley for Prejeans video also.
Brother you have it right its all about greed how can somebody make a buck! Don’t get me wrong I like capitalism it works if you let it. The people that went to self sustaining technology may have it right. We need to get educated about what technology works and forget about big daddy government. The Amish people have become self sufficient they have problems like all of us, but it would be nice to have some control and clean up our environment without government in our wallet or the one world globalist agenda. We are losing sight of why this country was established in the first place freedom from tyranny. Government needs to get out of the way and big business needs to get a clue! We have a great nation because we have great people, so stop the name calling lets do it together I think we can.
I don’t have an answer to this green theory as to how to make it work. But, one thing I am sure of, if the government is involved it will cost a whole lot more than if it was being researched and produced by someone in the private sector. Our tax dollars will once again be looted and spent without our consent. Too bad that there isn’t some way to make those who so freely spend our tax dollars accountable!
Robin, well said.
There is a way to hold them accountable. November 2010, vote them out of office.
One of the biggest problems we have is that so many people think that government can cure our problems. People should realize by now that they can’t. We need to put politicians in office that promise to cut the size of government dramatically and empower the citizens to take care of their own lives. It is an unrealistic expectation to think that the government cares enough to take care of us, when we don’t care enough to take care of ourselves. The only role the government should play is keeping us safe from the force of others. They should not be the forcers.
Same old,same old..boring,boring,boring!!
Too bad our officials in Washington dont know how to run this country properly, and balance the budget like our Mitch Daniels. He came in, he said he would do it, and he did it. In fact people, listen to this. After having some millions to the good, the democrats here all got together and tried to hatch all kinds of ways to spend it up, right here and now, just burn it up. He wouldnt let them. He sees ahead, and says we are going to need it down the line. Now it is getting close these next two years, under the Obamination, that we may well indeed need it. But that is the liberal think tank, get a few bucks ahead, spend it baby, spend it. So sad.
I get a kick how people fight progress and then shun anything that is not familiar to them. I suggest some of you people that are fighting newer solutions try and get out of your box and look around – this reminds me of when they thought the world was flat. Thank goodness for innovation or we would still be living in caves.
Innovation is one story, the quackery is the other. All Global-Warming-NOW-Climate-Change BS is the quackery. You want progress? Read the research documents and learn. And remember that. The Earth History is longer then the Century or Millennium and we do know about much of it from Fossil and Ice. Gore is the biggest science quacker by my judgment and damage he did is impossible to undo with all his money he has made on us.
KCurtis, I have not seen much “shunning of anything not familiar”. I think John Myers and the rest of us would welcome EFFICIENTLY produced solar and wind energy with open arms. I think you need to get out and look around at Algore and his ilk continuing to push systems that have failed in other countries. I have no doubt that there is a solution that will someday be found, as long as the government stays out of the way and stops funding/forcing unproven technologies and unfounded theories.
Yes, thank goodness for innovation. But government stifles innovation. They suck money out of the economy that would have been used for capital investment and they use it to support themselves and others who haven’t earned it. Private workers produce things. Government workers usually don’t produce anything and in fact usually get in the way of others who are producing things (negatively productive).
Dave, government does produce something, it’s called “hot air”. If we could harness it, they could heat D.C.
Kc…you’re right…these ranting people do remind me of flat earthers feeling threatened by progress. It’s easy to forget that these sorts of people still exist in the 21st century. They are afraid that their old,greasy,oil and smoke filled world is disappearing and they will be left behind…so they shout down others and call people names..the very people who are trying to save their grandkids and the planet. Pitiable.
Smart people learn from their own mistakes, wise people learn from other people’s mistakes. We don’t even have smart people in Congress.
American, they are smart enough to take all the money that the corporations are offering and make themselves rich.
So how many of these wind turbines do you have? Dont tell me you drive a car and put gas in it, or use natural gas or fuel oil to heat your house? If you do, by your own words here, then you are a hypocrite. If you truly buy into this, you should never ever spend one more cent on gas again, so just stop it now.
LOL, thanks needed that.
Like I said, go buy your self 100 acres and put up thousands of these ugly things, and good luck getting a return on your investment. Im here to tell you pal, it aint gonna happen ok? Get over it.
As long as poeple believe in polital miracles provide by misfits like Al Gore and Cohorts. This includes the Obama administration as well.Nothing will change!
The entire clean energy is a scam invented by bureaucrats for the worthless United Nations, supported by countless fools in Europe.
The dayli headlines predicting “Doomsaday” is we don’t clean up, adding to the large number of ignorand people to the Green phantsie nonsense. It will be very difficult to change the trend, as long as Obama runs arround supporting the same foolish agenda.
K H K
Karl you are right. Spain wants to sell their useless wind mills to this insane goverment. They are crazier by the day. The only thing we can do now is to vote them out. If you check this goverment I bet you 95% are traitors and for sure they are wiping their horses butt with the Constitution. Watch out for the comrades in Wasington that people is dangerous.
It is a truism I guess that the fossil energy is the renewable one stored by NATURE for the future intelligent creatures. When we start using the Solar and Wind to generate the energy for immediate use then obviously we will take it somehow from somewhere or something else. My thesis is that this something is the “Green Mass that Feeds US” and is turned into the fossil through the natural synthesis process and the “Coal is the Energy Store”. Yes; the fossil energy (crude) is the Hydrocarbon substance that can be also synthesized in the lab or the factory.
Human race needs energy for its own salvation. We need to figure out how to use it in the more intelligent way though. Knowledge needs time to be collected. This time is given us by Nature in form of the Fossil Energy.
Looks like we do know what to do and are fooled that we need to do something else. We need to use our Country Fossil Resources to reverse Energy Dependence and Trade Deficit. We need to develop most Efficient Energy Storage and Energy Preservation. We need to learn how to utilize the remnants of the “Green Mass that Feeds US” instead limiting the food production.
It is long and expensive process. Most importantly we can not borrow money for it any more and the Wall Street Brokers are useless here as well.
Put simply: OIL/COAL is Natural! OF THIS EARTH! PROVIDED TO US FROM EARTH. Solar panels and wind turbines ARE NOT! Fact: If you had to choose living next to a pumping oil well (thousands of people presently do!) verses a solar panel manufacturing plant I guarantee the air is cleaner next to the oil pump!
Oil/Coal is of this earth. There is NO GLOBAL WARMING! The earth cools and heats and has for millions of years. Man is incidental. Mother nature gives us 1 volcanic eruption and it equals more pollution than 5 yrs of automobile carbon output in CALIFORNIA.
Drill for Oil/natural Gas in Alaska. Drill for oil off Florida’s coast (the Chinese ALREADY ARE!) Wake up people. Grow up….your not that important to mother earth. You’ll more likely blow each other up with our bombs and guess what, earth will still be here and she will eventually recover. Even from that!
Repeat after me sheepables: There is NO GLOBAL WARMING! DRILL NOW
THERE IS NO GLOBAL WARMING DRILL NOW! THERE IS NO GLOBAL WARMING DRILL NOW!
Pat said it! There is nothing here that wasn’t here before, and it’s up to us to figure out the best energy source for the cost. Gorebull warming is a big, fat lie–just like the VP has-been who feeds his lemmings the rhetoric they suck up like zerobama kook-aid. The United States has every bit of it’s own abiltity to power the nation, but the liberals, and the zerobama occupying the Oval Office, have banned further leases and exploration in all but the most expensive land within the 50 States. The moratorium on petroleum exploration ended in 2008, but the liberals will not honor the terms and let the oil companies pursue those leases they had already. This is purely the tyrannical control of a house full of moonbats who will stop at nothing to make every one of us dependent on a feral government, yes, I said *feral*, in allowing us the Citizens to live out some meager existence when the tyrannists decide we can. The path is narrowing. It is up to the individual to decide if you need to be a slave on Uncle Sam’s plantation or a Free American to decide the path your life will take. Liberty or Death?
Well said Pat. I consider myself an environmentalist – a steward of the piece of earth I live on.
I have always thought that the philosophy of those who “consider” themselves environmentalists is very hypocritical. If the earth is warming because of human activity, and that warming will eventually render the earth uninhabitable by humans, shouldn’t they be happy to allow it “naturally” purge itself of the human parasite to make way for a hopefully more “earth friendly” species?
Oh, I forgot, our president and the world government are working on turning us all into third world citizens, so nobody has enough to pollute with – except, of course, for our benevolent rulers who will do what they think is best for us all – while selling each other carbon credits to make up for their pollution…
Cindy,
It is well-established that the cleanest countries are the wealthiest countries. So we can expect dirtier environments after the Liberals empoverish us.
Dave, yep, you are right the cleanest are the socialist countries. What does that mean?
DaveH has no response…Western and Northern Europe are social democracies…a mix of markets and socialism. They are well off,clean and safer societies. We’re not exactly pure free enterprise either.
China and the former Soviet Union just dump stuff wherever and whenever they way. This is the socialist way. They kill entire villages downstream from where they dump stuff, and they dont care. Its a socialist state, and the government says what is and what isnt. Sorry, you are wrong. Socialism sucks, and always will, unless you are one of the people controlling it, then you get to lord over everyone else. Im pretty darn sure it wasnt designed to be that way, that is, back in the beginning.
Pat..I’m afraid your guarantee of cleaner air next to an oil well is not credible..you have no credibility.
Coming from your mouth, that’s a laugh and a half. The expert on credibility.
Well, dealing with facts, I will say this. When I lived in Long Beach, right there in the ocean off of Cherry Beach, there are oil drilling platforms on this little islands they built, and I dont see any oil washing up on the beach, and all I see is clean air beside them. So what are you talking about? I think you are just blowing out your same left wing agenda based opinions again. I just listed facts, now come back and factually refute them, not with some agenda based opinion, but facts. I cant wait to hear what youve got.
You’re right Berboni. I have spent some time in Long Beach and Orange County and spent many days at differant beaches and it’s not uncommon to spot an oil platform off of the coast of the PCH.
Probably, not wise to erect oil rigs off Florida’s east coast, too many hurricanes, and our only industry is tourism, which would be killed after the first accident. But please feel free to go to Alaska, as we subsidize them anyway.
I love my oil, and I love Haliburton.
beberoni, then you will love these links about your beloved Haliburton. http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/Channel.cfm?channelid=70&contentid=1197
Beberoni, this should give you an excellent idea of who Halliburton really is.
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/about_hal/Chronology.html
Beberoni, I love it when the fish swallows the hook, line and sinker.
Too easy sometimes, isn’t it.
1) Blind follower of Rush’s twisted logic 2. someone who seeks to make sense of politics, but delegates the task to a right winger radio pundit, resulting in a chasm between what is believed to be true and objective reality 3) the homoerotic process of swallowing and later regurgitating Rush’s rants on internet boards 4) someone with strong opinions but lacks the eloquence to express them, makes their stance known only by agreeing with an eloquent speaker with the same opinions. Those were definitions of a ditto head. Libertytrail, put up the definition of a Troll for me, so I thought I would do you the same favor. Will give you the definition of a Becko at a later time.
…funny thing is I rarely, if ever listen to Rush. Of course your comments come from someone that worships Nazi Pelosi too. Real quality in that Huh?
Jeff – perfect reply – and unfortunately the multiple eyes is blissfully unaware that there’s a difference between creating your own definition as was done by the multiple eyes character; and placing in one’s comment an actual known and used definition –
I do listen to Rush, and I listen to Beck, and I listen to Hannity, and well, all I know is, is that I examine the things they say, and study the subjects they talk about, and I find that they do know what they are talking about, and they dont like, you know, like someone who said he was going to create jobs, and instead took unemployment from 4 percent to over 10 percent and rising. You know, like a guy who said his presidency would be transparent for all to see, and constantly is shrouded in secrecy of what he is doing. I mean, sometimes I think his job is so top secret, that he doesnt even know what he is doing. Thing is, dude, you wont accept the truth when you hear it. Oh, I forgot, make that dudette. Sorry, my bad, I forgot you were a bitter lady. I was thinking you were just a nasty bitter liberal man. These guys speak the truth. I dont know why you cant possibly know it. If they didnt, they wouldnt keep their jobs lady. Its that simple.
Beberoni, It’s always been my contention that Rush just wants people to wake. I enjoy Hannity, as I try to catch his show several times a week. Beck is the one that has amazed me with his passion. With Beck, just follow “The Yellow Brick Road” to the truth. I can understand by their ratings why Obummer and his pals don’t want them on TV or radio. They constantly expose all the fraud!
Liberty, your guy Rush is the one who uses that name constantly. What now you and yours don’t want to claim it? Funny, I didn’t even use the definition that states the dittoheads usually are of lower intelligence.
Sorry eyes, I’m clueless as to what Rush says – don’t watch/listen to him so not sure how you assigned him to me – you create false info as well as insert things you claim people say into your replies to their comments – you have no credibility in my eyes – eyes.
Hey TROLL. It’s obvious everytime you hit the keyboard that you make things up as you go. You really have zero credibility which is far greater than your spinning fairytales.
All you have to do is say one of three magic words. 1. Bush 2. Cheney 3. Haliburton. And after that, the liberals are all in. Its as easy as 1-2-3.
LOL! Hook, line and sinker. And they are all gut hooked!
My my, you forgot the all mighty Soros, but I’ll forgive you. I understand that he has a history with Haliburton.
One of the latest moves by globe trotting, hyper-liberal billionaire George Soros borders on being too much. According to papers filed with the SEC, in the fourth quarter of 2006 Soros purchased nearly 2 million shares of … hold your breath … Halliburton. The Halliburton shares reportedly went for an average purchase price of $31.30 a share. That puts Soros’ total investment in Halliburton at around $62.6 million, or about 2 percent of his total portfolio.
Soros, of course, is the dean of Democratic money giving. And Halliburton, of course, is the company that embodies everything the Democrats see as evil. Dick Cheney is its former chief, for goodness’ sake. But Soros is also a man of contradictions.
http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2007/02/27/soros_buys_halliburton
Jeff, why should you care, you believe that is ok, for the corporations to run the government anyway. What you don’t like it when someone other than a Conservative takes advantage of the “free Market”? Funny, jeff, you are funny in a sad sort of way.
…and that is the only response you got to the fact your HERO SOROS has actually spent money on something Cheney? You always use Cheney/Haliburton as one example of something terrible in the worst way. Who is being selective now?
Jeff, never once did I say I liked Soros, all I did was point out to you that your conspiracy theory will work on the Republicans too, as they have their own Soros in Sheldon Adelson. You make assumptions, that if someone doesn’t agree with your interpretation then they must be supporting the other side. You have this childish attitude of ” if you aren’t with us you are with them”. Silly child. Just because you can point out that both side have the same problems doesn’t mean you are promoting one above the other. I know that concept is hard for you to grasp, but maybe someday you will be able to understand that objective people can and do hold their party responsible when they screw up and expect them to try and correct the errors.
Let’s see, sun and wind are not from nature, that’s news to me.
Kcurtis, didn’t anyone tell you , we make our own facts on this site? Well, consider yourself told!!! LOL.
Yes you do eyes, you got that right. Yes you do.
The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government first does not TAKE from somebody else. How big was your voluntary check to the government in April above the taxes you owed? If you own stock in any given company, you already support the free market and that companies goals and initiatives. How much did you invest in the government by giving them more money than they billed you for? What has the government created or operated that was “profitable”? The government is not a company with the option of operating a business to make something for the Citizens. The government does produce one great product–misery.
Of course sun/wind is from nature. Capturing it, storing it and transporting it are the pollutants! More so then OIL! Even unrefined oil is usable as an energy source and rocket fuel. That is how oil was used in the past. As man moved away from whale oil he moved towards petroleum. The point is that Global Warming is a farce. We have plenty of energy in this country. Develop the technology to produce and store energy in the most non-polluting way to benefit man. By doing what benefits man, we do what’s best to protect mother earth. Clean air and water are what’s best for man. Drill for oil. Mine coal. Build solar farms, build power plants, nuclear energy, wind power. Do it all! Put solar on your roof. Less pollution is best for man. Just don’t base it on the false premise of global warming. It’s a farce! When you give up on that GREEN religion and wake up you’ll see things clearly. But, once you think your that important you’ll always have your head up your arse about how YOU/MAN is oh so important to effect the climate of a billions of year old planet! DRILL FOR OIL…..THERE IS NO GLOBAL WARMING!
Yaayyyyy Pat!
Pat,
It’s Climate Change now. Too many people have gotten wise to the Man Made Global Warming myth so they changed the name.
Is that like them calling terrorists insurgents?
While sympathetic to your basic premise this analysis does not seem to hold up. We should be comparing industrial production of power, complete with capital costs, as delivered to the customer. Comparing a one-off rooftop solar panel with an industrial coal plant makes no sense, it would be like comparing a home generator (which could run on gas) with a gas fired commercial plant.
There are several credible calculations of the true cost of power, here is one:
http://www.raeng.org.uk/news/publications/list/reports/Cost_Generation_Commentary.pdf
While the “green” power is more expensive, it is not as expensive as claimed here. There has been a flood of dis-information on power, progress on a real solution will come from credible facts and analysis. The “40 acres” is misleading as it is not an exclusive use of the land.
If we embrace a free market economy, but factor in the true cost of environmental damage, market factors will produce the best energy sources. Right now we have so many artificial cost factors (subsidies, restrictions, etc) that the costs are skewed. Where open market factors are not realistic is in the cost to the environment (a shared resource) as well as the cost and political risk of obtaining foreign oil.
Based on the available research the continued reliance on focal fuel sources seems like a very bad idea. That leaves Nuclear, Wind, Solar, Tidal & Geothermal. By the way, don’t overlook Solar-Thermal either. Different locations and situations may make either of these attractive in specific regions. Also, not all power need be 24/7 and generation of other fuels (i.e., ammonia) can be used where there is excess capacity. A mix of solutions based on a market economy to pick the best one for a particular situation would seem a realistic path. However, the environmental and political costs/risks are required in this situation; which is why, despite being quite conservative, a Co2 tax seems to be required to account for factors outside of the market.
You may want to check out Boulder, Colo. and Austin, Texas, they are truly making a difference by updating the grid and using new innovation for their power. Let’s look at the one’s that are making a difference instead of whinning all the time.
Hands clapping….
What are the real reasons behind this near-panic intensity to abolish the methods already in place for producing electrical power and bringing it to us, the customers? That system is a business. The founders of the business saw a way to make money by providing abundant power to as many people (customers) as possible at a rate which is affordable by all. We were sold on the idea of the “all-electric” home ca 1970′s, and we embraced it. Now we have millions of homes which don’t have any other source to heat, cool and light them, and now those on the green-left want to abolish it, in terms that both inspire panic driven herd alarmism, and guilt for being dirty polluters of the world, and infidels to this new religion that worships the world created rather than its creator. Those who want to take over and rule the world worship at that altar, and they see how our way of life is all sinful, in terms of their belief system. They also believe, whole-heartedly, that this planet (which the God we believe in created) can only support half a billion people. The rest, whom they refer to as “useless eaters” have got to go. But how to get us to believe too, and go along with it? Why, you have to raise the alarm against an enemy in common, which unless defeated will be the extinction of mankind outright, of course!. That enemy, according to the Algore school of world domination is “Global Warming” aka “Climate Change”. At the root of all their claims is human generated CO2 emissions, which, as claimed, will irrevocably change the planet climate making it uninhabitable. That is nonsense.
On one hand, you have a coal-fired electrical plant, running for 100 years; on the other hand, the eruption of ONE volcano. Which one belches more materials into the atmosphere? Maybe they should seek to outlaw the eruption of any more volcanoes? On one hand, you have all the automobiles in the State of California, running nonstop, 24/7. On the other hand you have a lightning strike into a protected forest where no one is allowed to cut even one little twig. The Forest fire rages out of control for a week or more, headlines and news video all over the place, yet not one of our greenies is alarmed in the slightest about all the CO2 being released into the atmosphere, to the point that its effects are easily seen in satellite images. That one forest fire puts the emissions of all those cars for a year to shame, and the shock to the natural system is incalculable. Yet mother nature takes care of it, and the effects dissapate. And yet, the greenies are still hammering away at us warning the sky if falling because we are driving our cars! Does anyone stop for just a moment to consider the ludicrousness of their claims? Granted, it doesn’t pay to engage in messing up your own place you live in, but it’s worth all the hullabaloo that we’re going to end life on this planet? Nothing threatens credibility like extremist lies.
In the eighth grade we were forced by the department of education in California some 40 years ago to take a course called Earth Science. It was obvious even to us eighth grade children what propaganda they were trying to indoctrinate us with, but in this course the claim was made that solar input is by far the largest driving factor that affects life on this planet. Without energy from the sun, life here would cease. They also taught about the sun spot theory, that solar output was NOT constant, it had variations that coincided with sunspot generation on the surface of the sun. It attributed the occurances of Ice ages to reduced output from the sun, and periods of more temperate warmth between the ice ages to increased output. True, the CO2 insulating effect was mentioned also, but in those days, it was just theory. Nowadays, it’s a freaking dogma of religion, and the CO2 levels in our atmosphere are in large part attributed to human activity. It’s incredible to even consider it, yet we are being charged, tried, and found guilty of planetocide by the greenie dictators, and are about to be punished severely. Enter Cap & Trade legislation, which while we were sleeping, they passed in our own legislatures, and those of you with greenie sympathies accept with nodding wisdom as the new way of this world that is inescapable~!
So, where are you going to put your wind “turbines”? Do you not see they are as ugly as sin? And what about your environmental impact study? Are you just going to build them because your religion dictates it, or will you do an honest assessment of the blight on creation you are about to commit? I bet you try to get away with it. But you know, those of us (in the majority I add) who reject your nonsense will insist on the very tool you have used against us, yes, the ol’ environmental impact study, and when it’s shown how despoiling millions of acres to erect your loathsome towers for your 3-bladed monstrosities will forever leave a scar on the nature you do adamantly propose to protect, will you stop then, humbly admitting you’ve been wrong? And that the situation will involve discussion and compromise rather than the dictatorship you are trying to bludgeon us with? No, probably not. The Green-left, demand that when they speak, people must stop and listen. For them simply uttering the charge is enough to warrant an immediate response, and not because it has any validity, but because they uttered it!
The greenies are demanding that everyone switch~ right now ~to alternative forms of transportation. How will the 95% of us be able to afford $70,00-150,000 for battery operated cars? And let’s just assume for a moment that money was no object, and we all plug them in tonight when we get home. There is a bit of leeway in the capacity vs demand on our electrical grid, but where will all that extra needed power come from?
In this brave new world you propose, where everyone depends on light rail to get from place to place, the sun is somehow much sunnier, and the skies much bluer than before and it’s a great day for mankind. How Idyllic.
I walk every morning to a nearby transit node to board a sleek, swift, and most importantly, silent train, and ride to the stop, also nearby the place I work, whilst sipping a capiccino and reading the paper on my PDA. How green can you get? But then I find out that I’m one of the lucky few because they simply couldn’t build enough routes to serve all people. Most people have quite a trek ahead of them to get to one of these shining nodes, which by the way are the only bright spot in entire neighborhoods, which due to service and infrastructure neglect have become battle zones of activity by criminal gangs, who roam the deteriorating streets of delapidated houses looking for victims to rob, beat up, rape or kill.
None of that stuff gets reported because it would make the socialistic regime look inept and ineffectual. But the guards they have at the transit nodes are armed to the teeth, in order to protect that singular symbol of order, without which no one would be able to tell the government actually existed. But it really does exist; we the people are like the hapless moths caught in her web, bound up with regulations and martial law, then sucked dry of all our wealth. And what does the she-spider do after she has supped? She snips the filament from which we are suspended to clear away for another victim, and we fall down below, where she forgets completely that we even existed. And then you find out, belatedly, that it isn’t because the government is inept, it’s happening deliberately, in order to, as Scrooge put it, to reduce the surplus population.
Seems like an overly imaginative, albeit dark, view of things? Why would you ask that if you do? It’s not that it can’t happen, it’s that it already HAS! When and where socialism has been allowed to get its tentacles around the throat of freedom and justice the above is the result. It was true in Socialist Russia and China under Mao, and it will be true here too. If they really were concerned about our welfare, they would be far more honest and transparent with us, and they wouldn’t be trying to sneak in one thing, cleverly disguised as another.
But keep this in mind: They can only be successful, where the population is asleep and lets it happen. Wherever the light of truth and justice shines upon them, they wither and die, because the light of truth comes from God, and since they are spawn of evil, this light they cannot withstand. Join together, under God. He is your only protection.
Farthing, If God is your only protection than why do you care whether we are socialist, communist or anything at all? Aren’t you saying God is in control? Isn’t she/he all powerful and men and their plans are then nothing to be concerned with?
Because Farthing is a moral man, unlike you Donkey.
Dave, Libertarians, don’t worry about morals. They are elitists, and only care about their own needs and desires, not others needs and desires. Why should you make a comment about denniso not being moral, when you are an elitist? You are straying from your platform.
As an impartial observer, who is neither a democrat like you eyes, or a libertarian like DaveH, I would say that the libertarians are far more elite than any old democrat, any day of the week. They have morals. Your party dont. End of discussion.
…and the bottom line is that “two immorals(eyes and duh!nniso) don’t
make it right!”
Berb, you are showing your lack of comprehension of the elitist. Thye have very little morals, they only worry about what they need or want. Get some knowledge dude, you haven’t done your homework, like DAVEh, ordered, by reading Ayn Rand. Or you could read James Madison’s papers concerning the subject of ethical egoism, which is the basis for the Libertarian party. Your ditto is showing.
Berb, you are right, my party, the Republicans no longer have any morals or ethics. Just look at Ensign, Vitter, Stanford having affairs is not really something that can be touted as Family Valves can it? Rather a little hypocritical don’t you agree? They must have been Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggerts listeners. Or maybe Rush’s, how many affairs and marriages has he had?
Because we are supposed to care and try to make a difference. We are supposed to help one another, and try to make a difference. Not to roll up in the fetal position and wait for God to do it all. Kind of like you democrats roll up in the fetal position and wait for the government to do it all for you. The government seems to be your god, and it is failing you. My God wont fail me.
…on my feet, hands clapping!
Beberoni, I can’t wait for God to see you. First question will be, who told you to pass judgement on your brothers? God, made it very clear that he is the only one to pass judgement, where do you and your band of pseudo Christians come off making statements and slandering all of the Democrats? You are the reason that Christianity is losing members. Hypocrisy is something that Christians are being accused of daily. The right wingers have copped a Holier than thou, attitude which is not what Christian beliefs are based on. You can judge someones actions to be what you don’t want to condone or follow, but you are not to pass judgement of those actions. A small item you so called Chrisitans have failed to comprehend. When do you think God passed on to you the right to decide who is a Christian and who isn’t? Oh, only the few Conservatives are in the know? Maybe you should revise the Bible and make sure that it lets the rest of the Christians throughout the world know, that only the few U.S. Conservatives are really Christians, because they have the correct political affiliation, and they have already passed judgement on anybody who isn’t a United States Conservative. One more question… do you also have to be a Baptist to be a Christian?
Lord know that you are the master of hypocrisy!
So because I have my opinion about the Democrats, Im passing judgment on them? Excuse me? You are way off base. Now I will tell you this, that I do know God, and I do have a very close personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I know God and I know what his word says. I know for a fact He is absolutely against murdering children in their mothers wombs. Absolutely, no doubt about it. I also know He is totally against homosexual use of our bodies. He says it is an abomination to Him. Im pretty sure He means that he doesnt condone it. In fact Im certain thats what it means. And in the end, being a believer in God, I believe we will all come to our judgment day in front of Him, and those of you who vote for these people who push to place homo-sexuality as a normal thing, and push to make it appear to be normal to murder infants in the womb, then you shall have judgment placed upon you for having a hand in this. If you say that is me passing judgment, then you must think I am God. Because Im just telling you the facts. If you want to receive it that Im judging you, then I would say the guilt is eating at you. Everyone that is doing something wrong, always wants to point the old little finger and say “your judging me”. What a cop out. If your guilty of this, then your guilty. Me, sorry, I will take no part and no responsibility in this, because I know it is wrong, and I will not vote for it. But I dont judge you, the Word of God judges you. Big Difference.
Berboni, I have a question because this isn’t my area of expertise.
I don’t think one has to belong to a denomination to be a christian.
Correct me if I am wrong. My brother, who graduated from the California Christian College isn’t available to give me an answer.
JeffH – I’ve never heard that one had to belong to a specific church to be a Christian or follower of Christ -
Berb, Did you see me make a statement about abortion or gays? Bob removed the ugly comment you made about the Democrats not being Christian. I responded based on that comment. They seem to be removing alot of comments. I never curse on this site, and the only word I have used is ditto head, and my comments have been removed. I had to put in twice the comment to American about her racial comment, before they decided to let it stay. Talk about censorship.
First of all..I am from Tn and we all know what a lier Gore is. This go green is his made up lie, so that he and his company can capitalize off the American public in a case of fear. Look who is making all the money….duh!
Thre is so mucg untapped resources here in this country that we are strangleing ourselves our of a country and families.
People…wake up….this is all about control…got it…control of the masses.
I love this country and all its beauty…and it will soon be the Republic of China…we have out sourced all our jobs…food…and building materials as well as oil producs. Forget about “Go Green” you or your family will not be around to worry about it!
The problem is, Jim, that most of these Liberals have grown so used to having it good that they don’t have any vision of how bad it can really get. They live in a fantasy world.
Hey wise guys…I know your reading is a bit limited, but, Al Gore is only one of millions who are trying to fix the energy and climate problem..he’s just a public face of the huge movement. You could look up more people to demonize w/ a little effort.
Do you ever have anything factual to add to the conversation? Or is being a trouble-making double-speaking Liberal all you know?
Dave, I’ve decided to boycott Denniso. Won’t give him a response to any of his remarks. Maybe he’ll go away.
Robert…you can’t handle the truth…all you hotshots want to do is call people names and fantasize. No one has said you have to read or respond to anyone..right?
No, Robert, he/she won’t go away because he/she is a Harpy.
And Denniso, don’t confuse your Liberal Doublespeak with truth.
What climate problem? The only climate problem I see is all the hot air that you spew Denniso.
Dave, Talk about a 9 yr old girls statement!! You just cannot resist taking a pot shot at someone who disagrees with you can you? Well, you are consistant if nothing else.
…and you are nothing if nothing else.
Shup eyes.
the babes are crying?
Al Gore? You actually use the name Al Gore like we should respect the things he does and says? Come on man. The guy is a first class hypocrite. Fact being, look at the size of his house, I mean he uses more energy in a month than I do in 2 years. He flies all the time, burning more fuel in a day than I do in 5 years. He does what he does in the name of green, to try to make millions of dollars. That is what he is in it for. Dont you see that? He is not in the least bit passionate about this. He is overcome with greed, as he see’s the millions he can make if we all buy into his global warming lies. In fact, its gotten so old beating this dead horse, they are now calling it climate change. When that gets tiring, they will come up with a new name. But seriously. His game is greed, not green. Get it straight.
Do the math, people. If you think America will be better because of al ‘gimme all your money’ gore or comrade obama, you need to filter the lsd you take every day.
These theoreticians do NOT have a clue. They never did. They never will. You are being HAD by hucksters, social engineers and corporate whores who make most corporatists look innocent.
There is no excuse for being naive or utterly stupid in this world. WAKE UP!
That’s not true. You just start “Going Rogue” and write book.
LMAO, with hands clapping, funny as hell.
She has gotten my vote. In fact, if your at all interested in the truth, had the Republicans been on the ball, theyd have ran Sarah with McCain as the VP, and we wouldnt be in this mess we are today. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Maybe you should read the book, and find out how someone that loves America is supposed to be like. At least then you will know.
Beberoni, don’t challenge them like that, they might actually read the book. Naw, they’ll get their info from Obermann, he’s more creditable and an reliable quote.
Beberoni, After her interview with Hannity and she couldn’t keep Iran and Iraq seperate, I think by now we could have been at war with Iran, if she was in office. She wasn’t even under pressure from the liberal media, and she couldn’t keep track of which nation she was talking about. Holy crap, the fact that she isn’t one step away from the Presidency, proves that God, truly does love America. He protected us from her.
You don’t even watch Hannity fool! You got your info straight from Obermann didn’t you !
Actually eyes, you fool even your own self. She is just one step away from the presidency. All she has to do is say, “Im in”. Then what you gonna do? Better hike up your big girl panties and get used to it.
Jeff, nope, I actually watched it, as I had a bet with my girlfriend that she would screw up. Won some money on that bimbo. Too funny, you will defend her, cause you old guys just get a “rush” when you see her. Hey, get the laws changed and just run Prejean instead. They have about the same intelligence level.
Like I would believe someone that thinks Nazi Pelosi is the Queen has a lot of credibility. You’ve been known to spin a tale or two or ten!
Jeff, you should email Palin and tell her that Iran and Iraq are spelled differently and we are at war in Iraq and not Iran. She could use all the help she can get. lol
Jim Lowe, Now you know Al Gore is a horses butt! He is making millions off this globel warming, nothing but a farce!!!!
PAT, I HAPPEN TO LOOK UP AND SEE YOUR POSTING—I GUESS YOU CAN SAY WE ARE ON THE SAME PAGE IN THINKING!!!!!!
We need to use all of our natural resources to bring the cost of energy down.If we do this maybe manufacturing & good jobs will return to our country.We are losing our mfg.base & this will put us at risk Milatarily….Lee F.
The problem is Lee, that an increasing number of workers are being sucked out of the private sector into government service. They go from being producers to being inhibitors. There is no way this Government growth can continue without adversely affecting our economy.
DaveH…what’s an inhibitor??? An electrical device?
One that inhibits Donkey. Like you inhibit intelligent people from carrying on a decent conversation.
Probably because the Wall Street that you love so much, put so many out of work, that they have no choice except take a government job. Which, some are necessary, police, fire, computer jocks for the traffic system, you know the government does have some positions which are required to live in the 21st century. I know you hate anyone who works for the government, but you are narrow minded and generalize too much. I like our advanced techno world and appreciate all the wonderful things we have. So, do you or you wouldn’t be using a computer now!!!!
If you look at history down the line, the Democrats have always grown government, always. They always create more and more social agencies, so they can tax me more and give it to whom they deem fit for it. Leeches.
I agree with the general sentiment of the article, however there are some technical issues I’d like to point out.
“You can’t store alternating current energy” – Nope. That’s why you convert it to DC, put it into a battery, then take it back out of a battery and invert it to AC using a power inverter. Turbines produce DC energy in the first place – all power generators do. I’m not sure where the author got this strange idea, but it’s not accurate. The issue is can you store it *cheaply* and in a storage medium that is not environmentally disastrous (batteries are toxic and require continuous replacement) – and the answer presently is no. There are some neat technologies around the corner that may address that. Other criticisms of wind power are pretty much spot-on.
“Nobody knows how to transport the sun’s rays from space” – also a no. It’s an issue of overcoming technical obstacles, not how it will be done. It’ll most likely be done using microwave, the issue as I understand it is how to keep it aimed at the receiver adequately enough to avoid cooking things.
“The pentagon says it’ll cost 10 billion dollars for a 10 megawatt collector” – the pentagon couldn’t pick a piece of corn out of an employee’s teeth with a toothpick and ten thousand dollars. We’re talking private space industry here, not NASA. It’ll be expensive, but not government expensive as long as it’s not paid for in tax dollars. If it is all bets are off, as they’ll find it necessary to buy all the executives gold plated toilet seats with 70 inch OLED screens on the bathroom wall to oversee operations and each take a personal trip to space to check out the future location of the satellite and god knows what else. Normally though you don’t launch a 10 billion dollar satellite if you want to stay in business.
Justen,
I should have said is that wind power can not economically be stored and utilized with current battery technology. As for the cost of a space-based solar array, the sheer size of sending such contraption into space is mind boggling, even if estimates on the cost are vastly reduced. Finally, no one as of yet even knows how solar energy would be “beamed” back to earth. For the time being it remains in the realm of science fiction.
Best,
John Myers
The new green religion has some relevance to why we are in Iraq and other wars.There is no other technology we have that can take the place of oil. Wind and solar only benefits us on a small scale, I like the idea of being self sufficient.But if we’re dependent on foreign oil to maintain our quality of life,thats not good,because it legitimizes innocent people dying over wars we are in.The U.S> uses 25% of the worlds oil, with only 2% of the reserves.Often they say where in a war because of terrorist,thats just a sugar coated reason for wars. Al Gore will profit off of this green religion, like everything they say that will help us or the environment, it always means more money out of our pockets,which makes us poorer,it also means more money in their pockets, which makes them wealthier.
Who’s hoodwinking who..?
Al Gore, Obama/Berry Soetoro; the government and transnational corporations, the [ NEW WORLD ORDER ] is a total fraud. Clean energy is now subverted by the guilt propaganda of we are responsible for climate change, as if CO2 is causing it. We are more than likely in a global cooling period via reduced sun intensity. Their true goal based on FRAUD, it to impose the Cap & Trade world tax feudalism.
There are no limits real limits to what we can achieve. We started in the stone age, and we are now in the information age.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7365305906535911834#
Self sufficiency is the answer. Break out of the world matrix of lies.
ecoloblue.com ; mysolarbackup.com
The only thing Al Gore is cleaning out is our pockets, bill folds and bank accounts! This guy is nothing but a BIG SCAM ARTIST! Watch out America! Another BIG HOAX from an even BIGGER LIAR AND THIEF! Thank God that this man never became president! Can you imagine?
Gore is full of (word removed for offensive content).
Bernie Madoff wishes he had thought of global warming instead of his ponzi scheme. Gore is a miserable, disgusting being, still depressed over losing to GW, and has stooped to taking it out on the American people. Only thing is we aren’t going to let him get away with it. Sorry Al, all those night you lay awake, denying yourself sleep trying to figure how to steal from the people.
Just more name calling..what does that say about you? Gore didn’t lose to Shrub..don’t you read? The repub supreme court handed the job to Shrub, before a recount may have come out w/ a different winner. Now really, Gore has been out of politics for almost 10 yrs and you want to keep kicking him and calling him bad names. You people just have to have your boogey men, don’t you?
denniso, they have more boggey’s than you could ever count. Can’t take responsibility for anything that has happened in this country since Jan of 2009.
Yes, Gore really did lose, get over it. Even all those newspaper people who went down there and did recounts admitted it. Plus, they didn’t count the absentee military votes.
American, rules are rules, you can’t count votes that didn’t meet the deadline. They don’t let you vote the next day, same idea with mail in votes. Deadlines are enforced for a reason.
He lost you wanker. Come on man. You keep forgetting about the millions of military ballots they didnt even count, you know, the ones that came in real late, because the democrats in charge of sending them out waited until like a day before the election to send them out the military, because they know the military votes like 97 percent republican? Yeah, there were millions of votes not even counted, that would have all gone to Bush, so if your going to spin yarns, get the whole ball of it in the story pal. You cant even lie good.
Beberoni,if 97% of the military is Republican, how did the Dem’s get control of the ballots? Are you saying that the military is so stupid that they were able to find somme of the three percent from all over the world, and give them the responsibility to make sure the ballots were secured and transported late? Brilliant. It is truly amazing that the Dem’s seem to get control of everything and are always responsible for the problems the Republicans have. They are the richest, they are the only teachers, they control all the corporations, they control the stock market, they control all the government agencies, they control all the hospitals and doctors, they control all the universities and school systems, but they must not control all the internet as you have a voice here. Look out they are coming.
Because evidently it had to do with where they were sent out of, or who ever or whatever committee is in charge of sending them out. All I know is I watched a 60 minutes report on it years ago, and it told all about how the person(s) in charge of sending them out were democrats, and they didnt send them until a day or two before the election, you know, trying to keep them from voting. But when they came back, and what with the recounts and all because of Al Gore being a sore loser, they still didnt need them because Bush spanked him, ok. Get over it, Gore lost, Bush won, I won, and you lost, so quit crying over your spilled milk. Quit trying to change history. It is very unbecoming of a woman your age.
I’m not crying, I am laughing at all you conspiracy types, who won’t take any responsibility for anything, and blame the democrats for everything that has ever happened. Did the Dems make Ensign have an affair too? You are just too funny. I looked at the 60 minutes show you are talking about and they never said the Dem’s did it. See how you turn everything into a blame game?
Berb, you make a stupid statement about the military being 97 % Republican and then you accuse me of crying in my beer? You sir, are a hypocrite of the finest kind. LOL
Isn’t there an old English rhyme about “4 and 20 Blackbirds baked in a pie.” Bring on the windmills and layout the pie crust!
There are many afraid of Nuclear power,however it still gives you the most power for the dollar and the cleanest power I might add..The drawback is handleing the Nuclear waste with that being said, there is not enough money being spent on research to find ways of decontaminating or recycling of nuclear waste..That being said there is enough coal in this country alone to power our country and Canada for the next several hundred years,and we have the technology to burn coal in a clean manner as we do to burn oil for our electrical needs…One decent sized nuclear plant produces what 10 coal or oil powered plants do with much less heat and air polution..In our past as far as buiding nuclear plants they have been very expensive to build because of cost over runs..In france most of their power is achieved thru nuclear power..They are way ahead of everyone because they standardized in the way they build their plants IE kind of like how you build a car on an assembly line..IE so the parts and assebly are much easier and safer..I am no nescasarily a proponent of nuclear power as I believe a lot of power could come from the tides and dams..I am however very much in favor of our country getting away from foreign oil!..I speak of these things from experience as a retired Steamfiter having work on all types of power houses throug out the country for over 35years.. the main thing folks is that the U.S. needs to get away from being dependant on other countries for our energy needs!
Tim..w/o the giant subsidies the gov’t gives to the nuclear industry, it couldn’t come close to competing w/ any other power source. One of the largest gifts that the evil fed gov’t gives(via your taxes) to the industry is cheap liability insurance, w/o which they couldn’t afford to operate.